I seem to have touched a raw nerve with my previous comments.:-) Let me respond to the comments made. These are nor personal critisisms, just observations.
I certainly don't take exception to your critisism - it is your "right" to make whatever comments you like, no matter how accurate or ill-informed. I don't attend SLUG meetings myself, as I live roughly 1/2 way between Sydney and Lithgow, and family and work commitments (not to mention firefighting during summer) preclude me from attending meetings during the week. However I am happy to discuss on or off-list. And I also agree with your definition of who this list is for - I have certainly learned much from the list in the 5 odd years I have been a subscriber, and I hope I have been able to contribute in some small meaningful way myself. I have made a number of good contacts via this list, and several of those have become firm friends - even our recently-departed 'el presidente' stated that my contributions were "generally of a helpful and informed nature", so I guess I'm not all bad, eh ? I make no appologies for the "take your head out of your arse" comment - my feeling was that the sender, at the time, was being an ill-informed prat. What I do appologise for is sending it to the whole list - his comment was public, but my response should have been private. I sought to 'rub his nose in it', and that was just as childish. The SLUG list, whilst being an good resource and repository of Linux knowledge, appears somewhat elitist at times - if you follow some of the threads - yes, patrticularly from Jeff and a few others, you get the impression that if you aren't running Debian, you aren't one of the "in" crowd. I run Mandrake, SuSE and Redhat - I have run Debian and I don't like it for anything save a development platform. Does that make my distros of choice "inferiour" and my comments "null and void" ? That's the impression that comes across. As for the SPAM policy, I had indepth and heated discussions with Jeff and some others about it ages ago. My personal feeling is that if you are going to read / benefit from the resources SLUG has to offer via the mailing list, but can't be bothered to "join" the list, then your contributions (if any) would most likely be of doubtful quality anyway. Essentially, if you're too lazy to join, why should you be allowed to post - read all you like, I have no problem with that. I stand by that comment, which is the way many many other mailing lists operate around the world. At the moment, a non-member could spam every member of the SLUG mailing list unrestricted, bypassing spamassassin if need be (there are ways to, and spammers are getting more resourceful every day), and there's nothing the committee will do about it. To me, that is irresponsible list management, akin to having no root password on your servers. Members only posting would REDUCE the amount of work for the administrators, not increase it. SLUG is no more the "public face of Linux", as you put it, than the Anglican Church is the "public face" of religion. Many SLUG members contribute greatly to the Linux 'cause' in one way or another, but SLUG is after all a small, somewhat ecclectic group with the same interests, as is any other "organization of loose association". Your assertion that you would "go back to using windows where I can avoid/ don't need to contact/associate/speak/type messages to people like that" is a childish, even infantile way of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Unless the rules have changed, you are free to leave the SLUG list any time you like, as am I, Jeff and anyone else. Finally, regarding "el presidente'" - I have never met Jeff in person, but have had a number of email "conflicts" with him. No doubt he did a number of good things while President, and for that he deserves out thanks (yes, even mine !!). However, he and I disagreed on a number of matters (specifically the SPAM policy), and I felt his way of dealing with these differences of opinion was somewhat authoritarian and not a little biased - after all, it was he who pointed out in an email that he was a "FOSS developer" and, by thinly veiled inference, somewhat better than me. He is (or was), after all, a REPRESENTATIVE of the SLUG Committee, not the whole committee himself. I would like to see this list run the way it used to be probably 4 years ago - helpful, insightful comments from people, helping newbies and people who have "brain fade" trying to do things, and generally supporting the Open Source movement, rather than the backbiting bitchy tower of babel it is in great danger of becomming. Comments on or off list gratefully received - flames_and_abuse > /dev/crapper Jon ------------------------------------------- "semper in excreto es sed profundum variat" -=> This list is for people who; -=> -=> a. Are advanced enough to actually confuse the rest of us -=> when they have problems b. Are advanced enough to actually -=> help newbies when they are not helping each other. -=> -=> When I see "take your head out of your arse" on the SLUG -=> mailing list, I know we have problems. That's Microsoft -=> talk for "I found the command line, nah nah!" -=> -=> SLUG is above all that, Slug is about helping and nurturing -=> a growing community. Slug is the public face of Linux for -=> alot of Sydneysiders (and possibly much further a field). -=> Slug is where you turn when Debian bites you on the arse -=> and you somehow manage to get Pine or Mutt to send a big Linux SOS. -=> -=> If this mailing list degrades into some "windows" -=> orientated flame war with a lot half wit "know it alls" -=> telling people off because they "know better", then I'll go -=> back to using windows where I can avoid/ don't need to -=> contact/associate/speak/type messages to people like that. -=> -=> So will alot of other people. -=> -=> Get it together SLUG, we depend on you, we depend on your -=> knowledgable members and we more than ever we need a sense -=> of community. -=> -=> Like I said, I am available anytime ... Flame this post and -=> you'd better have it to front the next slug meeting, -=> otherwise, your just datavapour ... -=> -=> For all who have kept the faith, and especially for our -=> departing "el presidenti" and "vice" Brave, Encore, Encore, Encore! -=> -=> Mick -=> -=> -=> -=> -=> -=> -=> -- -=> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ -=> More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -=> -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
