|
In our case, we've had more problems with the
"Ethernet Dying" problem than with the "Disassociation/Heat Issue".
Bobby Bounds
Airwave Internet, LLC
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
we have all had GREAT success until the heat hit
which identified a problem with the firmware. A new firmware came out and
fixed the lock up disassociation problem but created another problem they are
working on.. basically like you describe NO association at long distances..
and very slow speeds on those that do associate up close to the access points
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:12
PM
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
Scott, Mike,
I just joined this list because of
difficulties with the airPoint Pro Outdoor units. It seems everyone is
having similar issues, i.e. unreasonably slow speeds, not associating,
etc.
Has anyone yet had a success with these products? If not,
has anyone switched to a different manufacturer? If so, which products
work?
Thanks and good luck!
Sevak
On Mon, 2003-07-21 at
15:06, Scott Damron wrote:
You are correct, I stand
corrected. I just don't see how they can claim "Carrier Grade" even
if it is just a small blurb on their opening page of the website. I
have to say, if they can get their stuff together, and produce some
reliable stuff, they could really clean up!
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby
Bounds
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:02 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks
for your support and the patience
Scott......I disagree with
your rant about SB products where you say they "don't work worth a shit for residential even". The more correct rant would be, "units from
certain batches and especially the outdoor models don't work worth a
shit for residential even". As for us, we've had SB
indoor units working continuously for almost a year now w/o
incident. SB's biggest problems it seems to me,
are:
1. Poor quality control - Seems that more than once
they've shipped bad batches of units. So, one guy (like me) will say the
indoor units are great, while another guy has 25 bad ones sitting in a
box next to his bench.
2. 1st year
engineering mistakes - Seems like (I'm guessing here) their engineers,
while getting some things right (receiver sensitivity), totally miss
other obvious, yet important design points (particularly with the
outdoor units, e.g. how the coax and ethernet connects,
no integrated ethernet grounding solution, no sun reflector,
as just a few examples). IMHO, they should swallow their pride and
put their radios in a NEMA box and stick a SB sticker on the
outside.
3. "Featureitis" - In any specialized human
endeavor you have the "basics" and then you have the "extras". Extras
are good but not at the expense of the basics. The basics of microwave
radio transceivers used in a WISP business setting are: 1. Reliability
2. Usability and 3. Reliability......did I mention reliability? Your
'basics' list may vary but I think you get my drift.
So SB
has really missed the mark on their outdoor product line, big time. The
situation is too complex however to just call everything 'shit'.
SB's responses in this forum and elsewhere
don't give me confidence that anything will change soon. They are now
caught up in 'damage control'. What would give me confidence you say?
How about news they've fired their Director of Production and Director
of Engineering (on the outdoor units) and replaced them with 25 year
veterans from the Motorola commercial cellular division? That would be a
good start. Then they announce they have placed two of their engineers
on permanent assignment with two of their biggest WISP customers. Their
entire job would be to work in the field side by side with the WISP guys
and report back to the new Director of Engineering and Director of
Production as to problems and opportunities with SB products.
The next thing they do is send free spares and
replacements (replacements they're doing) to all their customers.
So, for example we've had about a 50% failure rate on outdoor units
(that's 12 units for us). So, we have a total of twenty four outdoor
units. For us they would replace the bad units with the RMA process
(which they've done for the most part) but then they'd send us 12 more
for spares because it is clear they have not resolved the many problems
with the units and we can reasonably expect further failures. The flaws
are built into the units. Firmware fixes are just part of the problem.
For you bigger operators they may have to send you, say a hundred or two
hundred radios. So, big deal, they're mass produced. It's a one-time
write-off for them. Outrageous you say? Too costly for them, you say?
Consider that our (SB's customers) financial losses due to the
defective outdoor products has run into the thousands and tens of
thousands when you consider extra labor and loss of goodwill. A class
action lawsuit is not such a far-fetched idea at this point and may be
necessary to get the attention of SB management. So, SB doesn't it just
make more sense to load us up with replacements? You'd have customers
for life.....for life.....I guarantee it.
And finally they need
to hurry up and ship their new outdoor line (Nexus?). . . . and they
better not have the same design flaws and low reliability as their
current line or they are history.
Bobby
Bounds
Airwave Internet, LLC
ABQ, NM
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Damron
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the
patience
I know this has been said already,
but according to Smart Bridge, their equipment is "Carrier
Grade" That is a rather heafty claim, as they don't work worth a
shit for residential even. Most folks I know who are WIPS's will
purchase a couple of pieces of equipment and test them. I would
not put an Airbridge of anykind on a business
customer!!!!!
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:26 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [smartBridges]
Thanks for your support and the patience
Brian,
I'll buy your airbridges at a substantial discount since they don't
work.
Regarding the business clients you lost, that
sucks big time! But, you really should have looked at using
different equipment to keep them on. If you are charging them
$300 per month for a connection they should get something more than
your residential customers (i.e. more reliable equipment).
Most businesses we deal with can and will pay a premium for higher
quality service, we would provide them with Trango gear, although
this is more due to the spectrum than anything.
At
some point *WE* must take responsibility for loosing
customers. You know, "shaft me once, shame on you, shaft me
twice, shame on me."
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:
Brian
Winters
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:13
AM
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for your support
and the patience
|
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![]() |
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July 20,
2003
I can appreciate the fact that SmartBridges is
frustrated. I can also appreciate the fact that they are
working hard to resolve the problem and that it
blindsided them or what have you. However, this is a
serious problem that I personally have been dealing with
for well over a month. (Check the very first post on the
subject when Mike and I posted the problems about the
indoor bridges) The fact of the matter is, whether its
their fault or not, this “situation” has seriously
impacted our business and lost us thousands of dollars.
Today I am prepping for a climb that will be the 4th
such climb on this tower to replace yet another
defective Airpoint Pro. My tower climber charges me an
EXCELLENT rate of $1 per foot but this unit is at the
top of a 250ft tower so you do the math. Aside from that
we have now lost 2 very important business customers
whose monthly billing was about $600 between the two of
them. Add up $600/mo and multiply by 36 months and see
what that number is.
More importantly however,
we have lost credibility with our customers because we
have been unable to fix the problem. Our service is seen
as un-reliable and our reputation has been very
negatively affected. And all of this through no fault of
our own. To make matters worse, we now have 25 bridges
in stock that we are afraid to deploy because we can’t
even get a MAC address list of the affected products. I
can understand how this situation sucks for all
involved, but the fact of the matter is, when we
purchase a product from a manufacturer and it doesn’t
work, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is. The sticker
on the side of my radios says SmartBridges and therefore
it’s their problem. I can’t believe how everyone is
saying that is great they are trying so hard to fix the
problem, Its not great, it’s a problem that never should
have happened in the first place. The way I see it,
defective chip or not, there should be a level of QC in
place that doesn’t allow 4,000 bad units out the
door…Period. Aside from that, this new “fix” seems more
like a crapshoot than a solution and given my luck, I
probably won’t get a single unit to work with the new
firmware.
I have been one of the main supporters of
SmartBridges products (my picture is even on the front
page of their website) but this leaves a bad taste in my
mouth. If you take the money I have spent fixing this
problem and add to it the lost business and reputation
issues, I could have deployed Alvarion and actually
saved money. (How many units could I lease for $600/mo
that I lost with my two business customers?) Plus, I
would be sitting at home with my family right now
instead of posting in utter frustration on a support
forum at Noon on a Sunday. My phone rings every 25
minutes and I haven’t slept in weeks, so I don’t really
care whose fault it is or how hard they are working on a
solution, this situation is going to be very hard to
recover from.
-Brian
P.S. I have 25
airbridges for sale if anybody wants them.
Best regards,
![]()
Brian W
Winters
President/CEO
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(502)
863-1709 Tel
(502)
863-1841 Fax
www.mybfe.com
|
Broadband
For Everyone
138 East Main St
Georgetown, KY 40324
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Email that means business, Every email, Every day -
LetterClick BrandMail ™ |
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nish
Park
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 3:43 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges]
Thanks for your support and the patience
Thanks guys for the support and the kind
words. I will pass it on to the team. I am sure they will
appreciate it.
Yes it is kind of frustrating. Right now all
the energy (yours and ours) is all going on non-value-add stuff.
And that too it happened right in the midst of some good QA
improvement tools we had put in place. It is all overshadowed
for the moment. I guess we will have to first plough through
this mess before the other improvement stuff becomes more
visible to you.
We were kind of broadsided with this
issue. We keep asking ourselves if somehow we could have
prevented it. And we can not think of a way. It’s kind of one of
those things where all the “correct” things have come together
in a certain way to have an “incorrect” product. Fortunately it
is a well contained problem affecting small numbers.
The
issue has been identified. Solution has already been put in
place in the factory. So from that perspective this is a closed
issue.
Now the challenge is to work with all of you to
figure out the least painful solution for the products out in
the field. We believe the Firmware upgrade will provide that
solution. I think we are very close. The root issue of “lost
association after some time” is CONFIRMED to be solved with the
new Firmware. Currently it seems to be working for 60% to 70% of
the users. So it releases a lot of pressure with this issue.
Some users are reporting their devices are not able to
associate at all after the firmware upgrade. We are
investigating the issue and trying to replicate. It looks like
some minor thing that we must be overlooking. So hopefully soon
we will have that nailed down also.
Again thanks for your
support and the patience to put up with all these difficulties.
We look forward to re-engage with all of you in high
gears.
Nish
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:12
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:
Re: [smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
I too am
very impressed with all the staff at SB! They are
dedicated, honest, hardworking, and I trust them. I can
only imagine that they are as frustrated as us with these
issues.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:
The
Wirefree Network
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:19
PM
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] New Firmware not
working for me
Ya….Chris…I
agree. However, I have been a beta tester for them since
Dec 02…not just a regular client. I have been providing
very detailed reports and I am used to receiving some
word??
That’s what has me worried at the moment. I can
see it now…a bunch of over-worked technicians banging their
heads on their desks.
I have not mass-deployed….dont want to
either. I only have 3 bad units and all of them are up at
the moment (knock on wood).
I wonder if doing a manual
upgrade, downgrade, upgrade, and downgrade knocked some sense
into the unit. Cause it’s been working fine ever since
yesterday. Not the first time that it has worked for 24
hours though. I am holding my breath. I really don’t
want to lose these 3 clients.
And I am not ever going to jump
on the “lawsuit” bandwagon either. I am EXTREMELY
impressed with the sB team….from Dilish, to Naveen, to Nish, to
Alex, to Seeni, etc…etc….. I believe they must have some
serious “insider” ownership going on. Cause they are some
DAMN hard workers.
Sully
P.S. I am having a problem
with logging into some units at the moment though??? Has
me stumped. I will address that in another
post.
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
phantam
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:05
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] New Firmware not working for
me
Sully there working on checking the problem
I believe I saw, remember it's a beta so it is going to be bug
ridden hence why they said not to mass deploy it.
I take it they had a feeling problems like
this were going to arise that's probably why it was released as
a beta with all the warnings because it was a rush beta to get
the kinks out in the field because really in design testing can
only show 1/100th of the possible problems that can occur in
software especially firmware for hardware.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: The Wirefree
Network [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:57 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I see you are
responding to some posts...and I have never known sB to
NOT
monitor this forum 24x7. So...where is your response to
our
problems with this firmware??
Please....we have been patient on this issue...but at
least let us know
that you acknowledge the problem we are
having and are working hard (as
usual) to fix
it.
Loyal sB user!
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:35
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] New Firmware not working for
me
Repost due to ZERO response from sB on this
issue.
Why is this firmware not allowing
association to some aPPo's???
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 5:15
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges]
New Firmware not working for me
Importance:
High
Here in my lab, I have a suspected bad
unit. I upgraded the firmware,
and it will NOT
reassociate with the intended aPPo. I switched
the
SSID/Freq to my other aPPo and it associated right
up. I did this about
5 times both ways. Every
time it was the same. I downgraded the
firmware back to
(0.01.04) and it associated right up with the
intended
aPPo. Upgraded again and it lost
association.
I have confirmed
that there are ABSOLUTELY no differences in the
settings of
my two aPPos except for this:
- Different SSIDs
-
Different freq's
- One is new aPPo with short pigtail, one is
older aPPo with hardwired
CAT5
The unit that I
can not associate to is the older unit. None of
the
older sB equipment is having any problems.
Everything is on the older
firmware as well:
aPPo =
1.4j.5
airBridge indoors = 0.01.04 (tried upgrading to
0.01.06)
Of the 17 I installed in the last 2 weeks,
three are experiencing the
"lost association" problem.
I replaced all 3 units (including POE
units) and all 3 are
still having problems. That is VERY odd.
Although
I did receive all these units (30) at the same time
(almost all
consecutive MAC addresses).
Still
doesn't explain why only these 3 are having problems and none
of
the other 14. I wouldn't think it was too odd if it
weren't for the
fact that I R&R'd all 3 units and they
are still losing association,
whereas all the other 14 new
clients are humming right along.
I really think
there is something more to this.
No...it is not
frequency or multipath or whatever. I have sniffed
out
the entire area. They are clean and very good
RSSI/LQ.
All 17 of these installs are within a half
mile of the aPPo and clear
LOS.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:09
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
name of the device is just airbridge.
I dont have any more client info
entered in any of my
devices.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of The Wirefree Network
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 4:51 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
1. Older aPPo (about 3 months old..older type unit with
hardwired CAT5)
running 1.4j.5 firmware.
2. Client
airBridge indoor units are running older firmware as
well
0.01.04.
3. SSID is only 3 characters long
4.
Preupgrade RSSI and LQ was in the 90's for both (when associated
of
course).
I am wondering if I
need the newer firmware on all devices first of all,
then
load the BETA firmware on the suspect
devices????
I had held off on
the last round of firmware upgrades due to
others
experiencing problems. I am about to try another
upgrade here in my lab
with one bad unit. Will keep you
posted!
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Haynes
Sent: Friday,
July 18, 2003 4:37 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
Mike and Sully. What FW are you running on the AP that
the upgraded
units
will not associate with? What was your
pre-upgrade RSSI and LQ? What is
the
length of the ESSID
on the AP that the units will not associate
with?
Mike, are there anyother differences
between the APs that the upgraded
units
will assoiate with
and the APs they will not associate with?
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of The Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:31 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
I
tried to upgrade one of 3 freezing units and it would not
associate
with
the AP. This is the only AP within
range of all 3 units, so I dont know
what to do at this
point.
I had to downgrade back to old firmware to
reassociate.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 12:29 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
Update,
I have 7 AP's running the same firmware.
For some reason upgrading the
firmware on the AirBriges kills
their ability to associate with two of
seven
AP's. I
can associate with any of the other five and all seems to
be
working well.
Not sure why
yet.
--Mike
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 12:20 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
Sam,
It either works or it dosen't.....Sounds funny
but, what I mean is that
the
upgrade seems to resolve the
heat issue. Though I haven't had any real
heat
the
last couple days. The bad side is that it seems to kill my
ability
to
associate with some of my AP's.
--Mike
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Friday, July 18,
2003 12:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Has anyone
installed the new firmware? I'm getting ready to try,
but
wanted
to check first to see what sort of luck others
have had.
Thanks
Sam
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