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The new atmel chips were not totally compatible
with the current firmware causing disassociation problems so they had to update
the firmware to be compatible with the new chips and the old chips.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
I don't understand. If this is a manufacturing issue, a
firmware upgrade will not fix it. What is the issue here?
On
Mon, 2003-07-21 at 17:00, sB Tech Support wrote:
We will have another
revised firmware 0.01.07 for airBridge once it is tested working. We believe
this can resolve some of the “side effect” that some have seen after
applying the firmware 0.01.06. We will announce when ready to
release.
Alex
sB Tech Support
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen
Wireless
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:19 AM
To:
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
we have all had
GREAT success until the heat hit which identified a problem with the
firmware. A new firmware came out and fixed the lock up disassociation
problem but created another problem they are working on.. basically like you
describe NO association at long distances.. and very slow speeds on those
that do associate up close to the access points
----- Original Message -----
From: Sevak
Avakians
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July
21, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the patience
Scott, Mike,
I just
joined this list because of difficulties with the airPoint Pro Outdoor
units. It seems everyone is having similar issues, i.e. unreasonably
slow speeds, not associating, etc.
Has anyone yet had a success
with these products? If not, has anyone switched to a different
manufacturer? If so, which products work?
Thanks and good
luck!
Sevak
On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 15:06, Scott Damron wrote:
You are correct, I stand
corrected. I just don't see how they can claim "Carrier Grade" even
if it is just a small blurb on their opening page of the website. I
have to say, if they can get their stuff together, and produce some
reliable stuff, they could really clean up!
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby
Bounds
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:02 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
Scott......I disagree
with your rant about SB products where you say they "don't work worth a
shit for residential even". The more correct rant would be, "units from
certain batches and especially the outdoor models don't work worth a shit
for residential even". As for us, we've had SB indoor units working
continuously for almost a year now w/o incident. SB's biggest
problems it seems to me, are:
1. Poor quality control
- Seems that more than once they've shipped bad batches of units. So, one
guy (like me) will say the indoor units are great, while another guy has
25 bad ones sitting in a box next to his bench.
2. 1st
year engineering mistakes - Seems like (I'm guessing here) their
engineers, while getting some things right (receiver sensitivity), totally
miss other obvious, yet important design points (particularly with the
outdoor units, e.g. how the coax and ethernet connects,
no integrated ethernet grounding solution, no sun reflector, as
just a few examples). IMHO, they should swallow their pride and put their
radios in a NEMA box and stick a SB sticker on the
outside.
3. "Featureitis" - In any specialized human endeavor
you have the "basics" and then you have the "extras". Extras are good but
not at the expense of the basics. The basics of microwave radio
transceivers used in a WISP business setting are: 1. Reliability 2.
Usability and 3. Reliability......did I mention reliability? Your 'basics'
list may vary but I think you get my drift.
So SB has really missed
the mark on their outdoor product line, big time. The situation is too
complex however to just call everything 'shit'.
SB's responses in this forum and elsewhere don't give me
confidence that anything will change soon. They are now caught up in
'damage control'. What would give me confidence you say? How about news
they've fired their Director of Production and Director of Engineering (on
the outdoor units) and replaced them with 25 year veterans from the
Motorola commercial cellular division? That would be a good start. Then
they announce they have placed two of their engineers on permanent
assignment with two of their biggest WISP customers. Their entire job
would be to work in the field side by side with the WISP guys and report
back to the new Director of Engineering and Director of Production as
to problems and opportunities with SB products.
The next
thing they do is send free spares and replacements (replacements they're
doing) to all their customers. So, for example we've had about a 50%
failure rate on outdoor units (that's 12 units for us). So, we have a
total of twenty four outdoor units. For us they would replace the bad
units with the RMA process (which they've done for the most part) but then
they'd send us 12 more for spares because it is clear they have not
resolved the many problems with the units and we can reasonably expect
further failures. The flaws are built into the units. Firmware fixes are
just part of the problem. For you bigger operators they may have to send
you, say a hundred or two hundred radios. So, big deal, they're mass
produced. It's a one-time write-off for them. Outrageous you say? Too
costly for them, you say? Consider that our (SB's customers)
financial losses due to the defective outdoor products has run into the
thousands and tens of thousands when you consider extra labor and loss of
goodwill. A class action lawsuit is not such a far-fetched idea at this
point and may be necessary to get the attention of SB management. So, SB
doesn't it just make more sense to load us up with replacements? You'd
have customers for life.....for life.....I guarantee it.
And
finally they need to hurry up and ship their new outdoor line (Nexus?). .
. . and they better not have the same design flaws and low reliability as
their current line or they are history.
Bobby Bounds
Airwave
Internet, LLC
ABQ, NM
----- Original
Message -----
From: Scott
Damron
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the
patience
I know this has been
said already, but according to Smart Bridge, their equipment is "Carrier
Grade" That is a rather heafty claim, as they don't work worth a
shit for residential even. Most folks I know who are WIPS's will
purchase a couple of pieces of equipment and test them. I would not
put an Airbridge of anykind on a business customer!!!!!
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:26
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the patience
Brian, I'll
buy your airbridges at a substantial discount since they don't
work.
Regarding the business clients you lost, that sucks
big time! But, you really should have looked at using different
equipment to keep them on. If you are charging them $300 per month
for a connection they should get something more than your residential
customers (i.e. more reliable equipment). Most businesses we deal
with can and will pay a premium for higher quality service, we would
provide them with Trango gear, although this is more due to the spectrum
than anything.
At some point *WE* must take responsibility for
loosing customers. You know, "shaft me once, shame on you, shaft me
twice, shame on me."
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Winters
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:13 AM
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the patience
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July 20,
2003
I can
appreciate the fact that SmartBridges is frustrated. I can also
appreciate the fact that they are working hard to resolve the
problem and that it blindsided them or what have you. However,
this is a serious problem that I personally have been dealing
with for well over a month. (Check the very first post on the
subject when Mike and I posted the problems about the indoor
bridges) The fact of the matter is, whether its their fault or
not, this “situation” has seriously impacted our business and
lost us thousands of dollars. Today I am prepping for a climb
that will be the 4th such climb on this tower to replace yet
another defective Airpoint Pro. My tower climber charges me an
EXCELLENT rate of $1 per foot but this unit is at the top of a
250ft tower so you do the math. Aside from that we have now lost
2 very important business customers whose monthly billing was
about $600 between the two of them. Add up $600/mo and multiply
by 36 months and see what that number is.
More
importantly however, we have lost credibility with our customers
because we have been unable to fix the problem. Our service is
seen as un-reliable and our reputation has been very negatively
affected. And all of this through no fault of our own. To make
matters worse, we now have 25 bridges in stock that we are
afraid to deploy because we can’t even get a MAC address list of
the affected products. I can understand how this situation sucks
for all involved, but the fact of the matter is, when we
purchase a product from a manufacturer and it doesn’t work, it
doesn’t matter whose fault it is. The sticker on the side of my
radios says SmartBridges and therefore it’s their problem. I
can’t believe how everyone is saying that is great they are
trying so hard to fix the problem, Its not great, it’s a problem
that never should have happened in the first place. The way I
see it, defective chip or not, there should be a level of QC in
place that doesn’t allow 4,000 bad units out the door…Period.
Aside from that, this new “fix” seems more like a crapshoot than
a solution and given my luck, I probably won’t get a single unit
to work with the new firmware.
I have been one of the main
supporters of SmartBridges products (my picture is even on the
front page of their website) but this leaves a bad taste in my
mouth. If you take the money I have spent fixing this problem
and add to it the lost business and reputation issues, I could
have deployed Alvarion and actually saved money. (How many units
could I lease for $600/mo that I lost with my two business
customers?) Plus, I would be sitting at home with my family
right now instead of posting in utter frustration on a support
forum at Noon on a Sunday. My phone rings every 25 minutes and I
haven’t slept in weeks, so I don’t really care whose fault it is
or how hard they are working on a solution, this situation is
going to be very hard to recover from.
-Brian
P.S.
I have 25 airbridges for sale if anybody wants them.
Best regards,
![]()
Brian W
Winters
President/CEO
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(502)
863-1709 Tel
(502) 863-1841 Fax
www.mybfe.com
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Broadband For
Everyone
138
East Main St
Georgetown, KY 40324
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Email that means business, Every email, Every day -
LetterClick BrandMail ™
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-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nish
Park
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 3:43 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
Thanks guys for the support and the kind words. I will pass it on
to the team. I am sure they will appreciate it.
Yes it is kind of
frustrating. Right now all the energy (yours and ours) is all going on
non-value-add stuff. And that too it happened right in the midst of some
good QA improvement tools we had put in place. It is all overshadowed
for the moment. I guess we will have to first plough through this mess
before the other improvement stuff becomes more visible to you.
We were kind of broadsided with this issue. We keep asking ourselves
if somehow we could have prevented it. And we can not think of a way.
It’s kind of one of those things where all the “correct” things have
come together in a certain way to have an “incorrect” product.
Fortunately it is a well contained problem affecting small numbers.
The issue has been identified. Solution has already been put in
place in the factory. So from that perspective this is a closed issue.
Now the challenge is to work with all of you to figure out the least
painful solution for the products out in the field. We believe the
Firmware upgrade will provide that solution. I think we are very close.
The root issue of “lost association after some time” is CONFIRMED to be
solved with the new Firmware. Currently it seems to be working for 60%
to 70% of the users. So it releases a lot of pressure with this issue.
Some users are reporting their devices are not able to associate at
all after the firmware upgrade. We are investigating the issue and
trying to replicate. It looks like some minor thing that we must be
overlooking. So hopefully soon we will have that nailed down
also.
Again thanks for your support and the patience to put up with
all these difficulties. We look forward to re-engage with all of you in
high gears.
Nish
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:12
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re:
[smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
I too am very
impressed with all the staff at SB! They are dedicated, honest,
hardworking, and I trust them. I can only imagine that they are as
frustrated as us with these issues.
Ray
----- Original Message
-----
From: The Wirefree Network
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:19 PM
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
Ya….Chris…I agree. However, I have been a
beta tester for them since Dec 02…not just a regular client. I
have been providing very detailed reports and I am used to receiving
some word??
That’s what has me worried at the moment. I can see
it now…a bunch of over-worked technicians banging their heads on their
desks.
I have not mass-deployed….dont want to either. I only
have 3 bad units and all of them are up at the moment (knock on
wood).
I wonder if doing a manual upgrade, downgrade, upgrade, and
downgrade knocked some sense into the unit. Cause it’s been
working fine ever since yesterday. Not the first time that it has
worked for 24 hours though. I am holding my breath. I really
don’t want to lose these 3 clients.
And I am not ever going to jump
on the “lawsuit” bandwagon either. I am EXTREMELY impressed with
the sB team….from Dilish, to Naveen, to Nish, to Alex, to Seeni,
etc…etc….. I believe they must have some serious “insider”
ownership going on. Cause they are some DAMN hard
workers.
Sully
P.S. I am having a problem with logging into
some units at the moment though??? Has me stumped. I will
address that in another post.
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of phantam
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:05
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
Sully there
working on checking the problem I believe I saw, remember it's a beta so
it is going to be bug ridden hence why they said not to mass deploy it.
I take it they had a feeling problems like this were going to
arise that's probably why it was released as a beta with all the
warnings because it was a rush beta to get the kinks out in the field
because really in design testing can only show 1/100th of the possible
problems that can occur in software especially firmware for
hardware.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: The
Wirefree Network [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:57 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I see you are responding to
some posts...and I have never known sB to
NOT monitor this forum
24x7. So...where is your response to our
problems with this
firmware??
Please....we have been patient on this issue...but
at least let us know
that you acknowledge the problem we are having
and are working hard (as
usual) to fix it.
Loyal sB
user!
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The Wirefree
Network
Sent:
Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
Repost due to
ZERO response from sB on this issue.
Why is this firmware not
allowing association to some aPPo's???
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The Wirefree
Network
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 5:15 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges] New Firmware not
working for me
Importance: High
Here in my lab, I have a
suspected bad unit. I upgraded the firmware,
and it will NOT
reassociate with the intended aPPo. I switched the
SSID/Freq to
my other aPPo and it associated right up. I did this about
5
times both ways. Every time it was the same. I downgraded
the
firmware back to (0.01.04) and it associated right up with the
intended
aPPo. Upgraded again and it lost
association.
I have confirmed that there are ABSOLUTELY no
differences in the
settings of my two aPPos except for this:
-
Different SSIDs
- Different freq's
- One is new aPPo with short
pigtail, one is older aPPo with hardwired
CAT5
The unit
that I can not associate to is the older unit. None of
the
older sB equipment is having any problems. Everything is on
the older
firmware as well:
aPPo = 1.4j.5
airBridge indoors =
0.01.04 (tried upgrading to 0.01.06)
Of the 17 I installed in
the last 2 weeks, three are experiencing the
"lost association"
problem. I replaced all 3 units (including POE
units) and all 3
are still having problems. That is VERY odd. Although
I
did receive all these units (30) at the same time (almost
all
consecutive MAC addresses).
Still doesn't explain why
only these 3 are having problems and none of
the other 14. I
wouldn't think it was too odd if it weren't for the
fact that I
R&R'd all 3 units and they are still losing association,
whereas
all the other 14 new clients are humming right along.
I
really think there is something more to this.
No...it is
not frequency or multipath or whatever. I have sniffed out
the
entire area. They are clean and very good RSSI/LQ.
All 17 of
these installs are within a half mile of the aPPo and
clear
LOS.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The Wirefree
Network
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 4:09 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone having
issues with the new firmware?
name of the device is just
airbridge. I dont have any more client info
entered in any of
my devices.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of The Wirefree Network
Sent: Friday,
July 18, 2003 4:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
1. Older aPPo (about 3 months old..older type unit
with hardwired CAT5)
running 1.4j.5 firmware.
2. Client airBridge
indoor units are running older firmware as well
0.01.04.
3. SSID
is only 3 characters long
4. Preupgrade RSSI and LQ was in the 90's
for both (when associated of
course).
I am wondering if I need
the newer firmware on all devices first of all,
then load the BETA
firmware on the suspect devices????
I had held off on the last
round of firmware upgrades due to others
experiencing problems.
I am about to try another upgrade here in my lab
with one bad
unit. Will keep you posted!
Sully
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Haynes
Sent: Friday, July 18,
2003 4:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Mike and Sully. What FW are you running on the AP
that the upgraded
units
will not associate with? What was your
pre-upgrade RSSI and LQ? What is
the
length of the ESSID on the AP
that the units will not associate with?
Mike, are there anyother
differences between the APs that the upgraded
units
will assoiate
with and the APs they will not associate with?
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of The Wirefree Network
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 6:31 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone having
issues with the new firmware?
I tried to upgrade one
of 3 freezing units and it would not associate
with
the AP.
This is the only AP within range of all 3 units, so I dont know
what
to do at this point.
I had to downgrade back to
old firmware to reassociate.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent: Friday,
July 18, 2003 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Update,
I have 7 AP's running the same
firmware. For some reason upgrading the
firmware on the
AirBriges kills their ability to associate with two
of
seven
AP's. I can associate with any of the other five
and all seems to be
working well.
Not sure why
yet.
--Mike
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent: Friday,
July 18, 2003 12:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Sam,
It either works or it dosen't.....Sounds
funny but, what I mean is that
the
upgrade seems to resolve the
heat issue. Though I haven't had any real
heat
the last
couple days. The bad side is that it seems to kill my
ability
to
associate with some of my AP's.
--Mike
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003
12:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges]
Anyone having issues with the new firmware?
Has
anyone installed the new firmware? I'm getting ready to try,
but
wanted
to check first to see what sort of luck others have
had.
Thanks
Sam
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