Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Allow me to share mine.
In a message dated 2/19/2003 2:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> New System Thoughts
> (Chick Hurst)
>
> First and Foremost: Central Bank must be owned and controlled for the
people by their government.
>
> Money is paid into existence from the Central Bank, directly to each and
every man, woman and child by way of a dividend or minimum standard income.
(This would allow money to percolate up from the people instead of "maybe"
trickle down. The money paid into society must be greater than the interest
charged on loans made by the Banks and Credit Unions on loans made.)
>
MB: Every individual will be provided with a standard income through a
credit on the employer of the principal earner's value added tax. The
payment will be for every child and or dependent spouse and will be a
pass-through from the provincial/state or federal tax. Note that the main
impact of this will be within the firm, as it is expected that most firms
will have a ratio of children to employees approaching the average. Those
that have a higher ratio of children will receive a higher credit, while
those with a lower number of children will pay extra. Children will only be
a tax benefit while they live at home. When they leave home to pursue a
career or training they can no longer be claimed, but will be considered
earners.
Chick: Traditional thinking might lead one to make such a suggestion but
what about the person who works at home and has no employer, or the person
who can not work because of some health reason. What about a writer or some
profession that does not fit the norm. What about single parents who must
stay at home to look after young ones because either they choose to or
because the cost of Day Care is too expensive. The Douglas theorists would
say that not all people will be in the traditional work force.
That said, it is very dehumanizing for a person to have to go, hat in hand,
begging and pleading for welfare, food banks, soup kitchens or whatever and
having to prove indigence in order to meet the requirements of the system.
If the minimum standard was paid out by the Central Bank then not only would
the indigent person not have to go through such degrading situations
throughout their lives but if they do earn some money it would not be
deducted from their welfare as it is now.
>
> Infrastructure money (roads, schools, government office buildings, water
and sewer, gas and power, public transit, whatever) is paid into existence
directly from the Central Bank.
Infrastructure money will be raised through use taxes and property taxes.
Neighborhood infrastructure will be determined by elected neighborhood
councils and business improvement districts. Poorer neighborhoods will
receive higher payouts of energy tax revenue to equalize disparities.
Chick: There is no need for Taxes except to extract excess capital from
circulation if it becomes necessary.
>
>
> Necessary services (education, health care) are paid into existence
directly from the Central Bank.
>
Necessary services will be provided by the employer as part of the
value-added tax system. The employer will contract either for managed care
or for some form of insurance (with incentives included to avoid
overspending, such as medical savings accounts and medical lines of credit
for optional services and co-payments). Criminal justice will be converted
to a system of restitution and mental health/addiction treatment and will be
operated, along with education, by faith based providers chosen by the
employees (including a non-sectarian provider), although providers will
redistribute funds so that imbalances between case loads and funding agents
are corrected.
Chick: Again, the employer has nothing to do with the individual and should
have nothing to do with the individual. (That is aside from the fact that
it would be much better for employees to own and control their own
workplace.) Where do you then get health care if you have a depression and
no one is working? What if there are just no jobs even if there is no
depression and the economy is good. Is everyone expected to prove indigence
or just lay down and die? Health Care and Education are just as necessary
to human existence as air required for breathing. Case study: Employee
manages a remote facility in the oil fields of Bakersfield California.
Husband contracts a virus. Employer is paying $1200 per month for Hospital
and health care for staff and their families. Problem, the closest hospital
that accepts that particular care is Los Angeles. Hospital in Bakersfield,
45 miles away can not accept patient. (The exact same health care coverage
in Alberta (Alberta is one of only three provinces that charge a premium) is
about $100 and the patient is accepted at any and all hospitals. The
patient almost died and was incapacitated for two years. Case study:
Ventura California, twenty-five year old man has crash on the freeway.
Closest hospital will not accept him because he does not have insurance, the
hospital that finally accepts him is in Los Angeles, one hour away. He was
on the operating table for five hours but passed away. One year later the
hospital was still trying to collect the $90,000 from his parents one year
later. The parents had to prove indigence in order for the state of
California to pay the bill.
Chick's Personal opinion: Health Care that is dependant on employers or the
proving of indigence is not only inhumane but criminal.
>
> Emergency relief is paid directly out of the Central Bank.
>
MB: Disadvantaged workers will be made whole in terms of addiction, training
and education by faith based organizations and then will be provided with
technical or academic educations by employers in exchange for a labor
contract. Termination for cause or self-termination will lead to a student
loan to be assumed by the succeeding employer, financed by the central bank.
Chick: Forget about addiction or termination, think about the human being.
Does individual living in hovel 100 miles out in the boonies from
Johannesburg or for that matter 400 miles north of Edmonton fit any of the
suggestions. If we are to consider any system it absolutely must be from
the perspective of the lowest person in the strata of society. Every
government or every elected representative must understand that they are in
the Legislature to represent 100% of the population and not just those who
voted for them. So, if we can create a system that will make life better
for the lowest of the low, in the most humanizing understanding and
development or method possible than those above will have no trouble looking
after themselves.
Student loans are a different matter. A system to cover post secondary
study should be established with the Central Bank covering part and long
term no interest loans for the balance, if any.
>
> Legislation is passed to prevent price gouging. (This is to prevent
problems such as the raising of prices on the electrical generators during
the cleanup after the ice storm in Quebec or for example charging excessive
amounts for boat services during a flood etc.)
MB: Leave the market alone, as reducing barriers to entry and exit will
eliminate gouging as a long term strategy.
Chick: When the ice storm hit Quebec in, I believe, 1998, a two thousand
dollar generator was selling for in excess of twenty thousand dollars in
most instances, not because of scarcity but because of greed. These people
were without power and heat for anywhere from one or two day to thirty days.
I would like to ask the question, if it is 30 degrees below zero or - 30 c
or whatever and you are without heat and power, if you don't do something
ASAP all the pipes in your home will freeze and the damage will be far
greater than a leg of beef in the freezer. What would you do if you are
just a regular guy, living pay check to pay check and just two days before
the ice storm hit you spent your last dime on car repairs and then someone
tell you he wants twenty thousand dollars for a generator to help return
some power to your home?
>
>
> Taxation is only used as a method of extracting from society excess cash,
so that it does not cause rampant inflation, by taxing cash transactions
above $1,000 to the amount of .25% (1/4 of 1%). (This may be too high or
the $1,000 may be too low but it can be adjusted.)
>
Taxation will be minimized, as only individuals making over $100,000 per
year will pay direct taxes on income from all sources (including
inheritance), and this only until the accumulated debt from social
insurance, general government and debt assumed from developing nations has
been paid off. The other forms of taxation will be the value added tax
(will be minimal or non-existent for firms who pay their share of health,
education and social welfare costs and income to families), property and
fuel taxes - which will be more like a user fee, and a defence tax - which
will be dissolved as developing states are converted to democratic states
with wide employee ownership and thus able to join in an international
allied state, which will start with the merging of the European Union,
Canada and the United States into one allied nation.
Chick: Not only are taxes not necessary except for the extraction of excess
capital in circulation, if the dividend was paid out properly there would be
no need to have many of the present government agencies such as Canada
Customs and excise or IRS in the US, and/or the equivalent in other
countries, welfare and social assistance except possibly offices for problem
situations but money related situations. And business would not have to
spend so much money working for the government deducting taxes etc.
>
> Governing requirements is be done at the level closest to the people for
the specific requirements. {Example: Federal system will be responsible for
the Central Bank, National Defence and/or supplying personnel for emergency
requirements, etc, and National Systems, Arts and Culture. Region (State,
Province, Canton or Constituency: will be responsible for regional
responsibilities, ensuring funding of Schools and education, health care,
roads, Arts and Culture. Local or Municipal: for local affairs, mass
transit, sewer and water, electricity and gas, libraries, Arts and Culture,
etc.}
MB: I agree and have addressed the mechanisms above. The result should be a
one-world non-government which merely prints currency, administers a central
bank and measures the economy and population (funded by seniorage and
financial operations), protects the rights of citizens against abuses by
governments and employers (funded by torts), protects the environment
(funded by fines and asset forfeitures by polluters) and explores space
(funded by research institutions and space travelers).
Churches will also adopt such principals. Hierarchies will be replaced by
assemblies of lay deacons who are hired by their congregations. Bishops
will not administer property or institutions, but will stick to teaching and
ministry. Freed from the responsibility to worry about not offending
donors, they can attack income inequality. Such a move by the "high
churches - especially the Church of Rome, will lead to religious unity in
Christendom, as well as provide a model for non-Christian faiths."
Firms will be controlled by rank and file employees rather than royal CEOs.
I seek democracy and justice in all avenues of life, not just governmental.
These changes will be adopted from within institutions, not by legislation.
Chick: People who pollute should pay the consequences by a fine or whatever
but the other process of paying for the operations of the different needs of
either the people or their government should be paid from the Central Bank.
The society requires enough cash in existence to cover the cost of interest
charges on borrowed money so, especially with the modern technology; it will
not be difficult to calculate.
As for the churches, I think you will find greater resistance to fiddling
with the churches than you do or will with business. And there is an old
saying that, "Hell will freeze over" before you will get unity in
Christendom and most especially, I would suggest, not the Church of Rome.
Now thy might if all Christians were to pledge allegiance to the Pope but
anything else, I would suggest, is beyond even a pipe dream.
I do agree that employees should own their own workplace.
>
> Banks and Credit Unions are all able to operate on the same basis (my
preference would be that all banks should be co-operatives, owned and
controlled by the depositors, the same as a Credit Union) and lend money for
everything that is required in society, homes, vehicles, business, etc.
MB: Employee-owned and controlled firms will establish credit unions or
contract for financial services for their employees.
>
>
> Freedom of enterprise is the standard. That is the freedom of all forms
of business to operate, Private Enterprise, Publicly traded Enterprise,
Co-operative Enterprise, Partnership Enterprise, and Government Enterprise
to provide services that are not provided otherwise or to keep the other
enterprise systems honest.
>
MB: The VAT system detailed above will allow many to start businesses who
had not been able to before, secure in the knowledge that they can pay their
employees PROVIDED that they can eventually raise revenue. Credit from the
central bank will be granted interest free to new enterprises who can meet
that standard.
Chick: There is still no need for a tax.
>
> Democracy, for the people, by the people, of the people and with the
people, is be the form of government, with absolute equality before the law
and respect for all people regardless of Colour, Religion, Sex or sexual
orientation, Social Standing and founded on the principles that:
>
>
MB: As mentioned above, democracy in all institutions, governmental and
non-governmental.
> A) The
individual is the most important factor in organized society, with both
spiritual and physical potentials and needs and has certain inalienable
rights and responsibilities within society which must be respected and
preserved.
>
>
> B) The
major function of a democratic government in organized society is to secure
for the people the results the people want from the management of their
public affairs as far as such results are physically possible and morally
right;
>
>
> C) Each
individual must be secure in the knowledge that he or she is worthy,
respected, equal and free, and that the freedom to choose one's destiny is
an inalienable right.
>
>
> D) Whatever
is physically possible and desirable and morally right, should be made
financially possible.
>
>
> E) All
forms of Totalitarianism which make the individual subservient to the state
must be opposed.
>
>
> F) The
values of self-help, self-responsibility, equality, honesty, openness,
social responsibility, and caring for others.
>
>
>
>
>
> {Keep it simple}
The best way to keep it simple is to shrink the public sector to the
greatest extent possible.
Michael Bindner
Chick: We agree on this, the public sector is an extremely expensive burden
for the people and if the system is developed properly it could be or should
be able to be reduced by, I would suggest, two thirds.
Thank you.
Chick
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Social Credit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] Thoughts
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Allow me to share mine.
In a message dated 2/19/2003 2:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> New System Thoughts
> (Chick Hurst)
>
> First and Foremost: Central Bank must be owned and controlled for the
people by their government.
>
> Money is paid into existence from the Central Bank, directly to each and
every man, woman and child by way of a dividend or minimum standard income.
(This would allow money to percolate up from the people instead of "maybe"
trickle down. The money paid into society must be greater than the interest
charged on loans made by the Banks and Credit Unions on loans made.)
>
Every individual will be provided with a standard income through a credit on
the employer of the principal earner's value added tax. The payment will be
for every child and or dependent spouse and will be a pass-through from the
provincial/state or federal tax. Note that the main impact of this will be
within the firm, as it is expected that most firms will have a ratio of
children to employees approaching the average. Those that have a higher
ratio of children will receive a higher credit, while those with a lower
number of children will pay extra. Children will only be a tax benefit
while they live at home. When they leave home to pursue a career or
training they can no longer be claimed, but will be considered earners.
>
> Infrastructure money (roads, schools, government office buildings, water
and sewer, gas and power, public transit, whatever) is paid into existence
directly from the Central Bank.
Infrastructure money will be raised through use taxes and property taxes.
Neighborhood infrastucture will be determined by elected neighborhood
councils and business improvement districts. Poorer neighborhoods will
receive higher payouts of energy tax revenue to equalize disparities.
>
>
> Necessary services (education, health care) are paid into existence
directly from the Central Bank.
>
Necessary services will be provided by the employer as part of the
value-added tax system. The employer will contract either for managed care
or for some form of insurance (with incentives included to avoid
overspending, such as medical savings accounts and medical lines of credit
for optional services and copayments). Criminal justice will be converted
to a system of restitution and mental health/addiction treatment and will be
operated, along with education, by faith based providers chosen by the
employees (including a non-sectarian provider), although providers will
redistribute funds so that imbalances between case loads and funding agents
are corrected.
>
> Emergency relief is paid directly out of the Central Bank.
>
Disadvantaged workers will be made whole in terms of addiction, training and
education by faith based organizations and then will be provided with
techical or academic educations by employers in exchange for a labor
contract. Termination for cause or self-termination will lead to a student
loan to be assumed by the succeeding employer, financed by the central bank.
>
> Legislation is passed to prevent price gouging. (This is to prevent
problems such as the raising of prices on the electrical generators during
the cleanup after the ice storm in Quebec or for example charging excessive
amounts for boat services during a flood etc.)
Leave the market alone, as reducing barriers to entry and exit will
eliminate gouging as a long term strategy.
>
>
> Taxation is only be used as a method of extracting from society excess
cash, so that it does not cause rampant inflation, by taxing cash
transactions above $1,000 to the amount of .25% (1/4 of 1%). (This may be
too high or the $1,000 may be too low but it can be adjusted.)
>
Taxation will be minimized, as only individuals making over $100,000 per
year will pay direct taxes on income from all sources (including
inheritence), and this only until the accumulated debt from social
insurance, general government and debt assumed from developing nations has
been paid off. The other forms of taxation will be the value added tax
(will be minimal or non-existent for firms who pay their share of health,
education and social welfare costs and income to families), property and
fuel taxes - which will be more like a user fee, and a defense tax - which
will be dissolved as developing states are converted to democratic states
with wide employee ownership and thus able to join in an international
allied state, which will start with the merging of the European Union,
Canada and the United States into one allied nation.
>
> Governing requirements is be done at the level closest to the people for
the specific requirements. {Example: Federal system will be responsible for
the Central Bank, National Defence and/or supplying personnel for emergency
requirements, etc, and National Systems, Arts and Culture. Region (State,
Province, Canton or Constituency: will be responsible for regional
responsibilities, ensuring funding of Schools and education, health care,
roads, Arts and Culture. Local or Municipal: for local affairs, mass
transit, sewer and water, electricity and gas, libraries, Arts and Culture,
etc.}
I agree and have addressed the mechanisms above. The result should be a
one-world non-government which merely prints currency, administers a central
bank and measures the economy and population (funded by seniorage and
financial operations), protects the rights of citizens against abuses by
governments and employers (funded by torts), protects the environment
(funded by fines and asset forfeitures by polluters) and explores space
(funded by research institutions and space travelers).
Churches will also adopt such principals. Hierarchies will be replaced by
assemblies of lay deacons who are hired by their congregations. Bishops
will not administer property or institutions, but will stick to teaching and
ministry. Freed from the responsibility to worry about not offending
donors, they can attack income inequality. Such a move by the "high
churches - especially the Church of Rome, will lead to religious unity in
Christendom, as well as provide a model for non-Christian faiths."
Firms will be controlled by rank and file employees rather than royal CEOs.
I seek democracy and justice in all avenues of life, not just governmental.
These changes will be adopted from within institutions, not by legislation.
>
>
> Banks and Credit Unions are all able to operate on the same basis (my
preference would be that all banks should be co-operatives, owned and
controlled by the depositors, the same as a Credit Union) and lend money for
everything that is required in society, homes, vehicles, business, etc.
Employee-owned and controlled firms will establish credit unions or contract
for financial services for their employees.
>
>
> Freedom of enterprise is be the standard. That is the freedom of all
forms of business to operate, Private Enterprise, Publicly traded
Enterprise, Co-operative Enterprise, Partnership Enterprise, and Government
Enterprise to provide services that are not provided otherwise or to keep
the other enterprise systems honest.
>
The VAT system detailed above will allow many to start businesses who had
not been able to before, secure in the knowledge that they can pay their
employees PROVIDED that they can evenutally raise revenue. Credit from the
central bank will be granted interest free to new enterprises who can meet
that standard.
>
> Democracy, for the people, by the people, of the people and with the
people, is be the form of government, with absolute equality before the law
and respect for all people regardless of Colour, Religion, Sex or sexual
orientation, Social Standing and founded on the principles that:
>
>
As mentioned above, democracy in all institutions, governmental and
non-govenmental.
> A) The
individual is the most important factor in organized society, with both
spiritual and physical potentials and needs and has certain inalienable
rights and responsibilities within society which must be respected and
preserved.
>
>
> B) The
major function of a democratic government in organized society is to secure
for the people the results the people want from the management of their
public affairs as far as such results are physically possible and morally
right;
>
>
> C) Each
individual must be secure in the knowledge that he or she is worthy,
respected, equal and free, and that the freedom to choose one's destiny is
an inalienable right.
>
>
> D) Whatever
is physically possible and desirable and morally right, should be made
financially possible.
>
>
> E) All
forms of Totalitarianism which make the individual subservient to the state
must be opposed.
>
>
> F) The
values of self-help, self-responsibility, equality, honesty, openness,
social responsibility, and caring for others.
>
>
>
>
>
> {Keep it simple}
The best way to keep it simple is to shrink the public sector to the
greatest extent possible.
Michael Bindner
> =======
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