Thanks Jessop--I believe you do! Sincerely Wally
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?: Wally comments > To all, but mainly to Bill and Wally > > Okay, chaps -- I hear you and will go straight for the main chance with no > compromises. I mean it. :-) > > Jessop. > ----------------- > > > On Thursday 02 Oct 2003 9:54 am, you wrote: > > I agree essentially with Bill's comments below. Any attempt to institute a > > National Dividend on the basis of recovery involves taxation. Under a > > Social Credit dispensation, the Dividend is automatically cancelled when it > > passes back from the consumer to industry and the banks with adjustments in > > the National Credit Account. This idea of recovery is reminescent of > > William Aberhart's early misconception of Social Credit, later thankfully > > overcome. It resembles the "disappearing money" theories of the socialist > > economist Silvio Gesell. As H. E. Nicholls, as chief researcher for the > > Alberta "Social Credit" League (who was sequestered, and told what to do, > > in a back room in Social Credit League headquarters in Edmonton) once told > > me "Douglas said that money already disappears too rapidly." > > > > Social Credit is not here to accomodate the orthodoxy (of the Left-Right > > nexus) because the latter is the problem, not the solution. Ours is a > > fresh new approach to hold up and stir the imagination--generate hope in a > > hopeless world. I believe there is an old saying that "It takes a long > > spoon to sup with the Devil." This is the time in a country like South > > Africa (and yes, in the United States which faces a deepening financial > > abyss--as elsewhere) to be bold, clear and definintive--to inspire. When > > Social Credit attempts to accomodate orthodoxy the difference becomes > > blurred and Social Credit becomes absorbed and emasculated (remember the > > flirtation with the Labor Party in New Zealand). We stand for a NEW way--a > > NEW civilization. Alaska has no difficulty in paying all of its citizens a > > universal dividend (admittedly not a true Social Credit dividend)--indeed, > > I believe the program is immensely popular. Are South Aftricans really > > that different? > > > > Wally > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:03 AM > > Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test? > > > > > ***| They are talking about a BIG paid from taxes. > > > > > > |*** > > > > > > Which is why it will never go anywhere or accomplish > > > anything, because it would require either more taxes > > > which are impossible to collect to fund the BIG, or > > > the diversion of taxes already being collected from > > > other programs that have entrenched constituencies > > > that will not let them go. The BIG effectively > > > neutralizes the movement for reform. > > > > > > > > > ***| What I suggest is just a simpler way of allowing > > > some to benefit from the dividend and others not. > > > > > > |*** > > > > > > The simplest way is to simply target the dividend in > > > its initial implementation to those most in need--the > > > first desideratum. Why make it so complicated? What > > > pitiful excuses for revolutionaries are the present > > > leaders of South Africa! And so unimaginative in a > > > land that is inherently one of the richest in the > > > world. This deplorable situation was recently > > > reported in the New York Times: > > > > > > "Like most squatters, Thabang's mother, Mosele > > > Malakoane, lives in a shack of caked mud, dung and > > > rusty sheets of corrugated tin, its meager roof > > > covered with black plastic weighted down by stones. > > > Inside are a few sticks of wooden furniture, a shred > > > of curtain hanging off a tiny window, a paraffin > > > stove and the double bed she shared with her son. > > > Thabang had two worn toys: a steam shovel and a small > > > gray airplane." > > > > > > > > > ***| I would be quite happy to give indiscriminately > > > to all, but we will never achieve that. |*** > > > > > > Who says "indiscriminate"? And who says "never"? > > > > > > > > > ***| In the South African political field we still > > > have very strong feelings about the injustices of the > > > past regime. There is still a strong desire for > > > redress, which in effect means to withhold from the > > > previously-privileged and give positions, status, > > > services, social security, etc., to the previously > > > disadvantaged. |*** > > > > > > And in doing so they have achieved a regime that in > > > financial terms is substantially more orthodox than > > > before. In this regard it is perhaps the most > > > conservative regime in the world. In every > > > statistical measure except for what we call in > > > America call integration, the situation in South > > > Africa is degrading. > > > > > > > > > ***| We have an active Labour movement and a vibrant > > > Communist Party whose constituencies are drawn from > > > that previously-disadvantaged segment which > > > constitutes about 90% of our population. |*** > > > > > > Not the ideologues and demagogues but the rank and > > > file can be recruited to social credit, for it offers > > > the real prospect of improving the situation. South > > > Africa faces a fork in the road that will determine > > > its destiny and perhaps the destiny of the world. > > > One direction is increasing stagnation. One > > > direction is increasing prosperity. It is up to us > > > who see the truth to show the way because there's > > > nobody else to do it. South Africa is at present in > > > revolutionary ferment. It is a critical moment in > > > history where bold leadership can make a real > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > ***| So they delisted. Their stated policy is that > > > they are not out to make a profit, which is what > > > shareholders would demand. |*** > > > > > > You still don't get it. The controlling block of > > > shareholders names half the directors. The > > > government probably ratifies their nominations for > > > the other half. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test? > > > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:56:41 +0200 > > > > > > A couple of points in response to Bill. > > > [snipped] > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage > > > today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > > > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. 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