below On 27 Feb 2014, at 16:02, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
> I notice that no one's mentioned Fabric Engine yet. I'm wondering what their > future plans are at the moment. Fabric Engine looks very promising but I wonder what their business model really is so I am quite cautious… The world is full of great ideas but if they don't make money that is the end of it. > Yep, I would love Houdini to develop to a place where it's capable of dealing > with modelling, rigging, and animation in an artist friendly way. All credit > to > you Jordi in trying to push SideFX in the right direction. Honestly, you seem > to > have boundless energy to drive these revolutions! Thanks, I just want to enjoy my day to day and produce great stuff. > IMHO, in order for Houdini to succeed, I think they need to split their > interface into two. The "dev" interface where you deal with nodes, etc. to > build > rigs, procedural modelling, tools, FX, etc. and then have an "artist" > interface > where they get to model stuff in a conventional way, animate rigs, etc. Only > then will it really take off. Nodes are great, but only in certain situations. I must confess my experiences over the last year have make me change my approach regarding this tech vs non-tech workflow in Houdini… and as someone on the list has asked for a bit of the information on these experiences I will develop here. If you work with Houdini like you do with Softimage in terms of workflow and pipeline you rarely need a software developer, what you need is a great FXTD helping architect how you work on a show and make sure your design is professional (from digital assets to various scripts) it is pretty minimal (render farm submission, open/save naming convention tools and very few other things) The fact is that the complexity can be easily hidden (to a level) and the artists route to accepting a node base workflow are easier than appear at first although it is true some things are literally not appropriate. For example, hiding a bit of geometry in order to select a polygon that is buried underneath requires you to put a node down… that is not friendly enough. But we are feeding all this to SideEffects so hopefully will evolve quickly. >From the point of view of the artists the trick is to dive into sections >little by little, don't get into the hard stuff at first, go for the easy >kills so you get a picture of the software and the philosophy because when you >decide to dive the whole application is bigger than I ever though and pipeline >advantages Houdini has have to be embraced if you want the full benefit. For example, traversing the scene to find out what is being cached is pretty much impossible since you can do things from VEX, call other nodes from other contexts… it can be truly daunting. My roadmap has been to get into lighting (not shading), then into layout and animation, then rigging and then shading. After that I will move into dynamics but for the time being I will hold. The net result is that now i have a decent picture and I can translate the good practices we have in XSI and translate them well to Houdini (almost) like for example how to structure partitions in houdini, how to do overrides (pinch of salt here) how to approach passes, how to approach referencing via digital assets, etc… My take is, I miss a lot of things from Softiamge, I would miss tons of things also from Houdini so my ideal scenario would be Softimage + Houdini but since Autodesk are doing things the way they do the reality is that I need to look at the future and only modo seems to be in line with what I want to do. hope this helps jb > > Until then, I think Maya + Houdini is the way to go. There's too much artist > availability out there at the moment to go any other way, but I wish it wasn't > so. > > > A > > > > > On 27 February 2014 at 15:39 Sergio Mucino <sergio.muc...@modusfx.com> wrote: > > >> Just in case it helps... anyone looking into rigging and animation in Modo, >> needs to look at ACS ( http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/kits/acs/ >> <http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/kits/acs/> ) >> It's the best auto-rigger system I've had the pleasure of using. It's >> currently limited to bipeds, but I don't think it'll take too long before its >> made modular. This thing is worth every penny... twice. >> >> I know it's a bit OT, but I thought some people looking into alternatives in >> this department would like to be aware of the available options. Cheers! >> >> Sergio Mucino >> Freelance Rigger/TD >> >> On 27/02/2014 10:23 AM, Angus Davidson wrote: >> >>>> Hi there >>> Always great to meet a fellow educator. We are precisely in the same >>> boat as you. We originally started in Maya (was the choice before | started >>> working there) and moved to Softimage after many issues with Maya. We saw an >>> immediate increase in the quality of the student work and use it to this >>> day. We however have the same concerns as you about the lack of development. >>> >>> We also now have a games design course (which is now in its third year) >>> and we need to get them started on a 3d App as well in their forth year. >>> >>> If you already have Houdini in your pipeline my advise would be to use >>> that more and augment it with something like Modo. For student work both are >>> rock solid (especially on Mac OS X) We dont have massive studios like in the >>> UK and the States. Our Biggest did Zambezia and that was mostly on >>> softimage. >>> >>> From a teaching point of view what we loved about Softimage was the >>> results were always consistent. On Maya it was never the case and depending >>> on when or if they deleted history it was incredibly difficult to trouble >>> shoot when things went south. Dear God I spent so many hours editing Maya. >>> ma files to try and salavge projects. with Softimage never had to do that. >>> >>> I am really enjoying the Modo Rigging and animating process. The >>> mindset is a bit different but then again sadly no process will be the same >>> as Softimage. At least my rigs dont break in Modo which happened to me all >>> the time in maya (rigging is not my strength ;) ) >>> >>> Luckily our teaching year just started so we only need to decide >>> sometime before Jan Next year (sticking to Softimage definitely for this >>> year) >>> >>> Maya LT due to its game focus is also a possibility. I need to do some >>> more testing from going between Maya LT / Modo and Unity as threat will >>> weigh heavily on the decision >>> >>> kind regards >>> >>> Angus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------! 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--! > -------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> From: Sofronis Efstathiou [sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk >>> <mailto:sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk> ] >>> Sent: 27 February 2014 04:41 PM >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >>> Subject: RE: new upgrade policy >>> >>> Hi Jordi, >>> >>> Thanks for the information – and 100% agree with was mentioned in your >>> earlier post. I was going to ask that exact question (especially as your >>> our external!). Obviously we need to transition from Softimage in the next >>> few months (can’t tell you how disappointed we are here) – however we >>> already use Houdini successfully on the Digital Effects course so it’s a >>> real option. >>> >>> Concerns are the character tools though – animation, rigging, modelling >>> etc. It seems Modo won’t be ready for a couple of years yet – do you think >>> our options are Maya for a single year and then a move to Modo, or are we >>> missing something else? Up skilling is a pain – would prefer not to do it >>> twice. Ideally looking for a Non-Linear Workflow to character setup and >>> animation (I hear Maya rigging workflow can be quite restrictive and less >>> flexible than Soft’s). Not sure about Modo. Houdini seems like a non >>> starter. >>> >>> I’ll be honest – although we have worked with a pedigree application >>> (Soft) for 15 years here; it’s been treated as an underdog for far too long >>> now. Development has been almost non-existent these past 3 years and I need >>> to look after my students, exposing them the to the tools and processes that >>> provide them the best opportunity. Maya seems to be the safe bet – but I’m >>> kind of tempted with a Houdini/Modo pipeline. Also a concern as some staff >>> will be teaching across a new Games course, so I can’t introduce Maya/Modo – >>> just wouldn’t be able to support it. >>> >>> Thoughts much appreciated as always…. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Sofronis Efstathiou >>> >>> Postgraduate Framework Leader and BFX Competition & Festival Director >>> Computer Animation Academic Group >>> National Centre for Computer Animation >>> Email: sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk >>> <mailto:sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk> >>> >>> Tel: +44 (0) 1202 965805 >>> >>> Profile: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/sofronisefstathiou >>> <http://uk.linkedin.com/in/sofronisefstathiou> >>> Student Work: >>> http://www.youtube.com/NCCA3DAnimation >>> <http://www.youtube.com/NCCA3DAnimation> >>> http://www.youtube.com/NCCADigitalFX >>> <http://www.youtube.com/NCCADigitalFX> >>> http://www.youtube.com/NCCAAnimation >>> <http://www.youtube.com/NCCAAnimation> >>> >>> <http://www.bfxfestival.com/competition/> >>> >>> >>> <http://ncca.bournemouth.ac.uk/> >>> <http://www.bfxfestival.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Awarded for world-class computer animation teaching >>> with wide scientific and creative applications >>> >>> >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> ] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares >>> Sent: 27 February 2014 14:24 >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >>> Subject: Re: new upgrade policy >>> >>> >>> >>> You can certainly animate in Houdini (I have seen it) but its toolset >>> is not geared towards it and IMHO although I am going to give it a good go >>> (I am right now rigging and processing mocap in houdini) the truth is that I >>> have already identified many issues we XSI artists would not be happy with. >>> >>> >>> >>> For this reason I look at rigging and animation on the Modo side or >>> Softimage side while SideFX a do their homework. >>> >>> >>> >>> As we speak I am preparing a massive report with videos on what they >>> should add and let's see.. so far they have been exceptionally good at >>> embracing suggestions (like the old softimage team… remember?) so I am going >>> to put my energy there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jordi Bares >>> >>> jordiba...@gmail.com <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 Feb 2014, at 12:33, Greg Punchatz <g...@janimation.com >>> <mailto:g...@janimation.com> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Jordi, As far as character and creature animation, how and what are you >>> using for that? I have never seen anything move at a decent clip while >>> watching Houdini demos.... and have heard nothing but nightmares from people >>> try to do character work in it. >>> >>> Does it have the user friendly tools for rigging like soft? Or are you >>> using Modo for character work? Its rigging seems more than strange to me. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Simon Reeves <si...@simonreeves.com >>> <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com> > wrote: >>> Interesting conversation for sure, I might finally have a good look >>> into workflows in houdini. >>> >>> >>> Also this is the preview to the last email.. I wondered if it was going >>> to be solution to a lack of freelancers...<temp.png> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Simon Reeves >>> London, UK >>> si...@simonreeves.com <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com> >>> www.simonreeves.com <http://www.simonreeves.com/> >>> www.analogstudio.co.uk <http://www.analogstudio.co.uk/> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 February 2014 12:07, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> Training an animator to use Houdini to animate is trivial >>> >>> Training a lighter to use Houdini is trivial >>> >>> Training a modeller to use Modo is pretty easy >>> >>> Training a modeller to texture in Modo is pretty easy >>> >>> >>> >>> What I want to say is that if you dive in the correct areas it is easy >>> and in a week or two you have any of these positions up and running. The >>> only secret is to have an expert at hand that can easy the pain and guide >>> the team. >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously a different thing is to get a Houdini FX guy, but we have >>> plenty of these ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> On the flip side, the less freelancer competition, the more you can >>> charge… >>> >>> >>> >>> ;-) >>> >>> >>> Jordi Bares >>> >>> jordiba...@gmail.com <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 Feb 2014, at 09:59, Cristobal Infante <cgc...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:cgc...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> What about freelancers though? >>> >>> >>> Surely you will want access to healthy freelance pool of people. So >>> good luck finding a "Modo lighter" or a "Houdini Rigger". My guess is Maya >>> is a more sensible option only for that looking from a production/managment >>> perspective. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 February 2014 09:43, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> would you give more money to Autodesk after what they are doing to >>> pretty much *every package* ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Let's recap >>> >>> >>> >>> Image Modeller = dead >>> >>> Stitcher = dead >>> >>> Matchmover = dead >>> >>> Combustion = dead >>> >>> Toxik = dead >>> >>> Naiad = dead until further notice >>> >>> Softimage = still developed but tiny tiny increments >>> >>> Motion builder = still developed but tiny tiny increments >>> >>> Motion builder for mac = stopped development >>> >>> FBX converter for mac = stopped development >>> >>> Mudbox = still developed but tiny tiny increments >>> >>> >>> >>> The only good news is that Flame v2014 has been a major effort on their >>> side and gave me the confidence to give Autodesk one more year, lots of >>> people angry with the changes but at least there was some vision although my >>> fear is that they will enter now a marketing stage to help boost sales and >>> engage again and push sales after the debacle of their change in the library >>> which made pretty much every flame artist angry. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Now, what are the alternatives? >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, I leant something last year when Apple decision regarding Final >>> Cut Pro (I am sure nobody needs reminding)… and what I learnt is that >>> Apple's core market is not pro software, its market is hardware, specially >>> mobile hardware (laptops, phones, tablets…) >>> >>> >>> >>> If you apply the same thinking with Autodesk everything becomes clear… >>> Autodesk core market is not entertainment, it's architecture and engineering >>> and they don't really give a $@^$£% about us as the list above demonstrates >>> clearly. >>> >>> >>> >>> The new version of Softimage, Mudbox and Motion Builder will tell >>> exactly where they stand for third year in a row so eyes open… >>> >>> >>> >>> in the meantime I chose to focus on those companies that pro software >>> is their core business and have market share to gain, and these are the ones >>> >>> >>> >>> SideEffects (via Houdini) >>> >>> Foundry (via Modo) >>> >>> MassiveSoftware (via Massive) >>> >>> >>> >>> So my approach is simple, force myself to transition in an abrupt way >>> (nothing better than full inversion) and help these companies to polish >>> their software as much as possible by being in the beta process, report all >>> bugs, new ideas, pass them information of which things work from other >>> packages… Exactly what I did with XSI. >>> >>> >>> >>> And one more thing, after diving in Houdini I consider it *impossible* >>> for any software manufacturer to put the necessary resources to compete with >>> them (I will repeat it… IMPOSSIBLE), the architecture is so advanced and so >>> well designed it is a marvel of software engineering (and expensive to build >>> of course)… this is here to stay my friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> and its getting easier by the day. >>> >>> >>> Jordi Bares >>> >>> jordiba...@gmail.com <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 Feb 2014, at 08:42, Nicolas Esposito <3dv...@gmail.com >>> <http://gmail.com/> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Quick question regadring the switch to another software: >>> I saw that quite few people are considering Modo or Houdini as an >>> alternative to Softimage. This is due to the fact that you want to >>> completely leave Autodesk for good, or because an alternative like Maya wont >>> suite your needs? >>> >>> I'm asking because I'm not familiar nor with Maya or Modo, so I was >>> just wondering what is the main reason >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-02-27 9:21 GMT+01:00 Sebastien Sterling >>> <sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com <mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> >: >>> It's a system that seems to favour massive company's that can afford to >>> routinely upgrade their packages, and screws the individual user for any >>> sort of brand fidelity they may attempt to maintain; if you know you are >>> going to get a discount (where it even 10%) on your next upgrade as a token >>> to your brand loyalty, you would feel incentivised to perches upgrades, its >>> marketing 101 no different then a loyalty card at your supermarket. >>> >>> The only reason for doing this is to intentionally loose a demographic. >>> In the short term maybe this will allow AD to save money, freelancers are >>> "infrequent in their purchases". They actually require a stable and >>> competent package out of the box, something big companies usually pays their >>> own Devs and TDs to sort out. Unlike big companies they also have the gall >>> to voice their contempt of an inferior service. >>> >>> So yea this kinda makes sense for them in the short term to stabilise >>> their key demographic, to the detriment of others probably makes the share >>> holders smile as well. of course this also kills any form of growth within >>> the potential market, but only time will tell what kind of impact that could >>> have. >>> >>> >>> On 27 February 2014 08:16, Angus Davidson <angus.david...@wits.ac.za >>> <mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za> > wrote: >>> On Modo I am really impressed with it. Some tools are not 100% where I >>> want them yet but overall finding it very powerful. Mesh fusion is awesome >>> and saving my pennies to buy myself a copy of it. Stuff like rigging is >>> handled differently so it takes a bit to wrap your head around it. >>> >>> >>> I really love things like being able to edit an animation curve in the >>> viewport or create a custom UI that allows me to key specific things on >>> each frame for the selected controller. Their curve editor just feels more >>> responsive to me. >>> >>> >>> >>> You can see these on the new learn modo videos the posted recently. >>> >>> >>> >>> That being said its not as polished as softimage yet but you also have >>> to bear in mind that things like decent particles and animation have only >>> been around a few years in Modo. If Softimage does go EOL it where I am >>> headed for my personal stuff. Whether we go that way for our students >>> depends on a few more things. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------! 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--! > -------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> From: Daniel Sweeney [dan...@northforge.co.uk >>> <mailto:dan...@northforge.co.uk> ] >>> Sent: 26 February 2014 11:19 PM >>> >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >>> Subject: Re: new upgrade policy >>> >>> >>> >>> I am as quick as I can off the autodesk rollercoaster. A few things >>> have made my choice I will always love soft and use the tool when its needed >>> but I think I need to look for another avenue. Looking at modo? Thoughts?? >>> Autodesk bollocks. >>> On Feb 26, 2014 8:52 PM, "Kris Rivel" <krisri...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:krisri...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> I read it and couldn't help but say WTH?! >>> >>> >>> Kris >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Emilio Hernandez <emi...@e-roja.com >>> <mailto:emi...@e-roja.com> > wrote: >>> Seems they need to fill the vault... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-02-26 14:29 GMT-06:00 Kris Rivel <krisri...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:krisri...@gmail.com> >: >>>>>> >>>> So...what's everyone's take on this gem? So if I don't upgrade to >>>> latest version now...then when I want that version I have to pay full >>>> price? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-the-Autodesk-Upgrade-Policy.html >>>> <http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-the-Autodesk-Upgrade-Policy.html> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is >>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please >>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or >>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. >>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf >>> of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this >>> message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the >>> personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the >>> views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All >>> agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African >>> Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> BU is a Disability Two Ticks Employer and has signed up to the Mindful >>> Employer charter. Information about the accessibility of University >>> buildings can be found on the BU DisabledGo webpages >>> <http://www.disabledgo.com/en/org/bournemouth-university> >>> This email is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and >>> may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in >>> error, please notify the sender and delete this email, which must not be >>> copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person. >>> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do >>> not necessarily represent those of Bournemouth University or its subsidiary >>> companies. Nor can any contract be formed on behalf of the University or its >>> subsidiary companies via email. >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/> , and >>> is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> >>> >>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is >>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please >>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or >>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. >>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf >>> of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this >>> message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the >>> personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the >>> views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All >>> agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African >>> Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. >>> >>>> >
