John, I don't have a problem with preventing cross-connection. What two things bother me though is the equipment, and especially the heavy handed, sometimes ignorance based, enforcement of both the local purveyors and USC. Examples: 1, Until recently no devices existed rated for fire service. 2, Until recently no consideration to flows greater than domestic trickles. 3, The huge pressure drops. 4, A purveyor (Seattle) that claims the devices must be installed so that the top of the device is inline with the valves and the entire assembly must be installed so that "top" is up because that's how they're listed by USC. 5. That most sprinkler failures are caused by shut valves. Adding extra valves in a system just increases the risk of one being closed. 6. A a corollary to 5 I once asked the folks at USC if I could take the second gate of and replace it with the same company's PIV. Although the body, discs, screw, etc. were identical (the only difference from the approved NRS version was the stuffing box disk used to support the post and the square nut rather than a hand wheel) they said no. (I believe that company has since gotten the PIV approved by USC.) I've also found that when trying to open a dialogue with these people about 1/2 play the my way or the highway role, 1/2 are disinterested and the third half will understand that both our goals are public safety and will talk, listen to reason, and compromise if sensible and/or possible.
On 7/16/07, John Drucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
David, That would be akin to saying whats the chances of my building being involved in a fire, do I really need sprinklers ?. A building equipped with a standpipe would be one example, or perhaps where a temporary water supply connection is made via the FDC or where the fire departments SOG may include standing orders that FDC's be connected to at all times. Another thing that came to mind. The plumbing and mechanical sectors install backflow prevention as a matter of course to prevent cross contamination. Why does the fire protection sector feel the need for cross contamination should not apply to fire protection systems ? (Aside from citing the technology issues noted earlier) John Drucker -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Autry Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System Just how many FDC's get used in a fire? Almost every sprinkler saves that I read says the fire was out by the time the first responders got there, or the fire was controlled and only had to use a couple lines to put it out. I realize that high-rise fires on the left or right coast would be a different story. I've always wondered if the FDC was used and if so, why? David Autry Plans Examiner Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office 246 S. 14th Street Lincoln, NE 68508 402-471-9659 402-471-3118 fax www.sfm.ne.gov -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 8:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System Roland, Fire Departments do the damnest things, even so far as drafting from storm sewers. It all comes back to the emergency nature of fires. Once upon a time in draft I witnessed sand and seahells from a deck gun. When the operator was alerted he responded by saying that they could fix the pump later. He was correct. My community resides on a tidal river. Many road lead right up to the river. Many sprinklered buildings with FDC's are along the river where the fire department has direct unimpeded access to the river. Lastly think fire departments don't go to draft, well consider that my company did just that at a house fire last year. (Theres another member of this list who was there). It does and will happen so long as that heavy semirigid hose keeps getting installed on fire engines and drafting remains in the SOGs. John Drucker Captain Middletown Twp Fire Dept Station 8 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System One of the aspects that drive an RPZ is when the fire dept draft from non-potable sources (anytime). Roland _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
-- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
