the probability of a pumper or 2nd-due engine
gettin the connections wet is more ProbablY
good odds if there is fire showing.

foam in the tank is possible, though highly
improbably as it is usually inducted at a
hose outlay rather than
poured into the belly of the engine's tank.

what we are arguing over (probability of a
engine contaminating a potable water supply)
is best visited by those that do this work:
engineers on fire trucks.  They know the
Probability of them contaminating potable
water is very, very low, for most municipal
jurisdictions.

These musings will continue to be just that,
until the people who are doing what we are
talking about, weigh in.

What happened to common sense?  Out in
Enviro world, I hear of people using Ca(SO4)2
to precipitate dissolved chlorine from water
flow test discharge.  I thought the disassociation
constant for Sulfates were much lower than for
Chlorides, even without speaking to the fact of
mixing times.  Are we trying to
solve a problem that may not exist in
epidemiological terms?  NIH must have stats on
that.  I don´t think pumpers in large cities are
doing much drafting from ponds.

Leakage creeping around a 15 year old BFP
holding back sprinkler muck-water... that is another
story.

scot deal
excelsior fire



On 7/13/07, Michael O'Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

How about an end thought as the day winds down.

I spoke with the ICC about the RPBP vs DDC thing out of the IPC

Specifically section 608.  The funny part about this section is that it
speaks to a DDC throughout the section except when you have antifreeze or
foam in the system.

The unique part is the commentary of the code.  The commentary (for you
sprinkler folks that's like the handbooks in ICC language) speaks very
specifically that if a non-potable water source is used in a fire truck
then
a RPBP is required.  That is every single fire truck in the US.  If they
suck out of a pond, use hose to connect to a hydrant, use foam in a tank,
use any solvent or the like in the tank, etc. . .

What is frustrating to me is that this language is very clear in the
commentary.  If that is what the "intent" truly is, then change the code
language to reflect the commentary.  I work for many municipalities and
work
on the AHJ side and this is a tough issues.

What is truly the probability of a Fire truck pumping into a FDC?
I think we all can agree that the RPBP is a maintenance nightmare.  If you
want I can summarize the commentary language on a future email.


Michael O'Brian
Code Savvy Consultants
www.codesavvyconsultants.com
313-618-6401
Fax 313-557-0294

************************************************
Take a look at www.inspector911.com the first site dedicated to code
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reviewers).
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Drucker
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System

Roland

Take a look at this;

2006 NSPC 10.5.9 - Exception (3) "Where fire protection include a fire
department connection, double check valve assemblies shall not be
permitted."

John


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System

One of the aspects that drive an RPZ is when the fire dept draft from
non-potable sources (anytime).

Roland
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