A potential "back door" gotcha is.. Some years ago there were some ESFR sprinklers that had FM approval only. If I remember right, there is usually a little box in the approval section of the Tech Data sheet that states that in order to have FM approval, this sprinkler must be installed in accordance with 2-2.
R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie Rd. PO Box 877 Cantonment, FL. 32533 850-937-1850 Voice 850-937-1852 Facsimile [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: ESFR heads at airflow openings ----- > ----- >Ok, so do you have roof or sidewall exhaust fans? Any ----- >intake plenums ----- >with diffusers, or just an open intake? What are the ----- >sizes of the fan intakes? ----- > ----- >If the fans are roof mounted is the opening level with ----- >the underside of the roof (no plenum), and what relative ----- >distance is there (vertically) between the sprinkler and intake? ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Some AHJ's and others think that meeting FM is required ----- >just like it's another Code. ----- > ----- > ----- >Craig L. Prahl, CET ----- >Fire Protection Group ----- >Mechanical Department ----- >CH2MHILL ----- >Lockwood Greene ----- >1500 International Drive ----- >PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 ----- >Direct - 864.599.4102 ----- >Fax - 864.599.8439 ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >http://www.lg.com ----- > ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Bobby Gillett ----- >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:37 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: ESFR heads at airflow openings ----- > ----- >The insurance carrier is not FM he is just quoting FM ----- >and the GC spec's did not require FM only NFPA-13. I ----- >just wanted to have my ducks in a row before I responded. ----- > ----- >They already had the HVAC Eng. calculate the airflow and ----- >they say it requires me to be 30" from the edge of all 7 ----- >of the exhaust fans (for heat removal--no AC). My ----- >thinking was in line with yours Craig, if all of the ----- >sudden they want to follow FM - that would be a change ----- >to perform the work. ----- > ----- >One of the resolutions, according to FM, is as follows; ----- > ----- >2.2.6.2 If it is not possible to meet 2.2.6.1, chose one ----- >of the following ----- >>options to ensure proper operation ----- >>of suppression mode sprinklers in buildings with ceiling-level ----- >ventilation: ----- >> ----- >> ----- >>a) Sprinklers Beneath Vent Openings ----- >> ----- >>Install suppression mode sprinklers of the same type ----- >used elsewhere in ----- >>the building centered in vent openings having a maximum ----- >dimension of ----- >>4.5 ft (1.37 m). This option does not apply to storage ----- >of commodities ----- >>greater in hazard than cartoned unexpanded plastic, ----- >such as uncartoned ----- >>plastic, aerosols or rolled tissue in buildings higher ----- >than 30 ft (9.14 ----- > ----- >>m). ----- > ----- >I would have to put a sprinkler in the vent opening, due ----- >to spacing there is no way to move over and be 30" away. ----- >I believe this would act like an obstruction and the one ----- >we added would not have an affect on the other sprinkler ----- >spacing-correct? ----- > ----- >Bobby Gillett ----- >Project Manager ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(731)-424-0130 ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:27 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: ESFR heads at airflow openings ----- > ----- >The closest thing to that requirement is the table ----- >8.3.2.5(a) which is dealing with temperature of heads in ----- >relation to heat sources, not specifically ESFR and air ----- >velocity. Other than that I couldn't find anything ----- >related to adjacent air velocities. (I've got ----- >electronic search capabilities) ----- > ----- >First thing I'd do is go back to the GC and state that ----- >your contract directs you to design to NFPA NOT FM. If ----- >the client wants to adhere to FM standards and did not ----- >indicate that in any of the project bid documents then ----- >any extra effort required on your part to meet those ----- >requirements should be an add to your contract. ----- > ----- >If you're using ESFR, are you in a open ceiling ----- >warehouse or mfg. space? ----- >If that's the case most of your air distribution is ----- >probably below your sprinklers and if so, the discharge ----- >velocity of the diffusers should be inconsequential to ----- >your sprinklers as they should be discharging air ----- >downward. If you have areas where there are either ----- >intake or exhaust louvers or diffusers and they look ----- >like they will draw air across your sprinklers then ----- >you'll need the HVAC plans showing the discharge ----- >information on those outlets so you can space heads ----- >accordingly. But even with that, it's really not up to ----- >the sprinkler contractor to determine what the air ----- >velocity is at a given point in space. You as the ----- >sprinkler contractor shouldn't have to undergo the ----- >exercise of determining when the air velocity drops to ----- >or below 5 fps. ----- > ----- >Other question is, does the FM guy know what the ----- >terminal velocities are of the air devices in relation ----- >to the location of your sprinklers? ----- > ----- > ----- >Craig L. Prahl, CET ----- >Fire Protection Group ----- >Mechanical Department ----- >CH2MHILL ----- >Lockwood Greene ----- >1500 International Drive ----- >PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 ----- >Direct - 864.599.4102 ----- >Fax - 864.599.8439 ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >http://www.lg.com ----- > ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Bobby Gillett ----- >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:27 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: ESFR heads at airflow openings ----- > ----- >In designing an ESFR system the following is one of the ----- >FM requirements; ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > >2.2.6.1 Coordinate the location of sprinklers and the ----- >design of powered ----- > ----- >>heating, ventilation and air conditioning ----- > ----- >>for buildings protected by suppression mode sprinklers ----- >so that the air ----- > ----- >>velocity at sprinklers does not ----- > ----- >>exceed 5 ft/sec (1.52 m/sec). ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >I am required, according to job specifications, to ----- >design to NFPA-13. I don't see such a requirement in ----- >NFPA-13 or in the listing of the sprinkler. ----- >Am I missing something? The Insurance agent is now ----- >throwing the above section from FM at us. ----- >Suggestions/comments, please. ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Bobby Gillett ----- > ----- >Project Manager ----- > ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- > ----- >(731)-424-0130 ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
