We don't need to turn this in to a political forum. I think it is
safe to say that everyone (labor, management, government, Wall
Street, foreign entities, etc) pretty much has some culpability with
the present economic situation.
Getting back to the original post..... The CT Fire Safety Code is, of
course, as clear as mud. The section on existing educational
occupancies requires sprinklers be installed and references back to
another section regarding automatic sprinklers. This section
references a specific part of the CT General Statutes. However, the
GS only addresses new buildings and buildings subject to state grants
for building projects.
At 01:32 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
rod,
the plants down south are backed by the Japanese government.
They probably are receiving tax breaks from the states and local governments
just for employing people.
(tax breaks funded by the big 3). Is that right? Japan has protective
tarriffs against our manufacturers.
China has been trying to import cars into the US for several years. To date,
they are too unsafe. Eventually they will be approved for import. How can we
compete against slave labor?
Better yet, why should we?
I am tired of GM, Ford and the American workers and the unions they belong
to getting blamed for this mess.
I don't want to debate unionism but I would adamently disagree about 300
pound gorillas in the sprinkler trade unions. My family has owned companies
(union and non-union) over the past 50 years and I have never heard
of bullying
from the pipe trade unions.
You mention Boise Cascade. Canada dumps lumber onto our markets. Is that
fair? Should the mills work for free to compete against it?
We cannot be a nation of consumers and not producers. And communist China
should not be setting the standards against which our workers must be paid.
It seems the great crime GM and Ford committed was employing Americans when
every other industry went overseas. I hear constant complaints about the pay
of autoworkers and their executives. Yet, very little complaints about other
CEO's making equal amounts of money.
I heard a speech from a Havard Law professor, giving the Jefferson address
at Berkeley UC a few years ago. She explained that wages for the American
worker have not increased. They have actually decreased over a 30
year period,
with inflation adjusted. Yet, we have gone from a 1 memebr- working
household to
2-member working household...and there is a growing disparity between the
upper income levels and lower income levels.
It is well documented that violence associated with unionism goes both ways.
However, when Thomas Jefferson and John Adams visited London while on
assignment, Jefferson was disgusted with the workers in the growing
industrial age
and the manner in which they were treated. Unions established certain
standards which the governments refused to do. (Teddy Roosevelt was
attacked form
within his own party for advocating certain work hours and speaking against
child labor).
I don't want to debate unionism on this forum. However, it should not be
used to attack the autoworkers and their companies which were mostly
responsible
for building our industrial base in this country. Without them, we would have
been the agricultural base Jefferson idealized and certainly would not be
the leader of the free world today.
Forest Wilson
Cherokee Fire
In a message dated 12/31/2008 11:50:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Very well said George and I for one will be acting on your words. We
just had a brand new 55,000 ft school built in Wyoming with no
sprinklers. When I looked into it they had separated the building into
sections of 20,000 ft or less and claimed that they didn't have to
sprinkler it per the IBC. E occupancy...unbelievable.
As for the 300 pound gorilla you couldn't be more correct. For people
who haven't had to deal with this FIRST hand it may seem conspirators
but for those of us who have had to battle this we know exactly who the
gorilla is and we know that his tactics have no limits. I was a scab at
the Boise Cascade plant in International Falls. The mancamp was burnt to
the ground. I remember being 19yrs old and testifying against a salt
that was trying to get my friends and now partners a felony for HIS
actions. To call this bill the employee free choice act is priceless.
Lets take away your right to a secret ballot and call this your free
choice. I would just laugh but it is far too serious for that.
And as for Cherokee's opinion that they union didn't play a significant
role in what is happening in Detroit I have to dissent. There is clearly
responsibility on all three (administrative, union, political). Cherokee
asked "Is the answer to make everyone work for minimum wage? Maybe we
can feed the retired workers dog food and take away their pensions and
health care." My response is that if you look at the plants down south
are they working for minimum wage? No they are working for a good wage
that keeps their company competitive. Will their retirees be eating dog
food without a pension or health care? I doubt it because they haven't
made the fatalistic mistake of killing the hand that feeds them. However
if there is a group that is in danger of this outcome I think we know
who it is. It is always easier to blame someone else rather than to look
at what your part of the problem was.
Rod DiBona
Rapid Fire
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: another fire - this will be interesting
Well, at least it was paper that burned, and not the people mentioned in
the
article about "the only things in there that can burn are people and
paper".....
It would be prudent for all of us to contact our congressmen in DC with
a
note pushing for installation of fire sprinklers in our schools as a
part of
the infrastructure investment that the president-elect plans. I believe
high-speed internet, HVAC and electrical upgrades to improve efficiency,
and
similar items are what he intends to spend money on. It would make sense
to
try to get some of that funding dropped into Life Safety upgrades as
well.
Mention the Green side of sprinklers, you can avoid the chance for the
building to go up in polluting smoke.
Anyone subscribing to this Forum should have the savvy to google their
congresspeople, and send em an email pushing for including sprinklers.
If
you don't, we won't get the funding, and we'll have no one but ourselves
to
blame.
And so long as those email addresses are in front of you, you might want
to
change the topic and send another email protesting the planned signing
of
the Employee Free Choice Act, wherein the Free Choice of a secret ballot
will be taken away from American workers in favor of a card check by
union
organizers- with no NLRB election. Congress seems concerned we big bad
employers are bullying our workers into not signing up with a union.
They
seem to miss the reality we experienced years ago, when 300 lb gorillas
trespassed onto sites and vehicles in an attempt to sway our workers
into
being represented by their union.
When was the last time you read about non-union workers performing acts
of
violence and intimidation against signatory workers? It's the other way
around, and their success rate of representing our construction industry
speaks for itself- from 80% of construction in the 1960's to less than
15%
of today's construction industry. And let's face it, they still have 15%
of
the market since the government clings to the prevailing wages from the
1930's in an artificial propping up of their wage rates.
Let's face it, Detroit and Pittsburgh are the poster children of what
the
autoworkers and steelworkers have done to promote a viable industry here
in
the USA. The last thing we need when trying to compete in a global
economy
is less efficiency in our labor.
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd
Williams
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: another fire - this will be interesting
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/news_wtnh_Shelton_High_fire_200812301825
Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
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