rod, the plants down south are backed by the Japanese government. They probably are receiving tax breaks from the states and local governments just for employing people. (tax breaks funded by the big 3). Is that right? Japan has protective tarriffs against our manufacturers. China has been trying to import cars into the US for several years. To date, they are too unsafe. Eventually they will be approved for import. How can we compete against slave labor? Better yet, why should we? I am tired of GM, Ford and the American workers and the unions they belong to getting blamed for this mess. I don't want to debate unionism but I would adamently disagree about 300 pound gorillas in the sprinkler trade unions. My family has owned companies (union and non-union) over the past 50 years and I have never heard of bullying from the pipe trade unions. You mention Boise Cascade. Canada dumps lumber onto our markets. Is that fair? Should the mills work for free to compete against it? We cannot be a nation of consumers and not producers. And communist China should not be setting the standards against which our workers must be paid. It seems the great crime GM and Ford committed was employing Americans when every other industry went overseas. I hear constant complaints about the pay of autoworkers and their executives. Yet, very little complaints about other CEO's making equal amounts of money. I heard a speech from a Havard Law professor, giving the Jefferson address at Berkeley UC a few years ago. She explained that wages for the American worker have not increased. They have actually decreased over a 30 year period, with inflation adjusted. Yet, we have gone from a 1 memebr- working household to 2-member working household...and there is a growing disparity between the upper income levels and lower income levels. It is well documented that violence associated with unionism goes both ways. However, when Thomas Jefferson and John Adams visited London while on assignment, Jefferson was disgusted with the workers in the growing industrial age and the manner in which they were treated. Unions established certain standards which the governments refused to do. (Teddy Roosevelt was attacked form within his own party for advocating certain work hours and speaking against child labor). I don't want to debate unionism on this forum. However, it should not be used to attack the autoworkers and their companies which were mostly responsible for building our industrial base in this country. Without them, we would have been the agricultural base Jefferson idealized and certainly would not be the leader of the free world today. Forest Wilson Cherokee Fire In a message dated 12/31/2008 11:50:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Very well said George and I for one will be acting on your words. We just had a brand new 55,000 ft school built in Wyoming with no sprinklers. When I looked into it they had separated the building into sections of 20,000 ft or less and claimed that they didn't have to sprinkler it per the IBC. E occupancy...unbelievable. As for the 300 pound gorilla you couldn't be more correct. For people who haven't had to deal with this FIRST hand it may seem conspirators but for those of us who have had to battle this we know exactly who the gorilla is and we know that his tactics have no limits. I was a scab at the Boise Cascade plant in International Falls. The mancamp was burnt to the ground. I remember being 19yrs old and testifying against a salt that was trying to get my friends and now partners a felony for HIS actions. To call this bill the employee free choice act is priceless. Lets take away your right to a secret ballot and call this your free choice. I would just laugh but it is far too serious for that. And as for Cherokee's opinion that they union didn't play a significant role in what is happening in Detroit I have to dissent. There is clearly responsibility on all three (administrative, union, political). Cherokee asked "Is the answer to make everyone work for minimum wage? Maybe we can feed the retired workers dog food and take away their pensions and health care." My response is that if you look at the plants down south are they working for minimum wage? No they are working for a good wage that keeps their company competitive. Will their retirees be eating dog food without a pension or health care? I doubt it because they haven't made the fatalistic mistake of killing the hand that feeds them. However if there is a group that is in danger of this outcome I think we know who it is. It is always easier to blame someone else rather than to look at what your part of the problem was. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: another fire - this will be interesting Well, at least it was paper that burned, and not the people mentioned in the article about "the only things in there that can burn are people and paper"..... It would be prudent for all of us to contact our congressmen in DC with a note pushing for installation of fire sprinklers in our schools as a part of the infrastructure investment that the president-elect plans. I believe high-speed internet, HVAC and electrical upgrades to improve efficiency, and similar items are what he intends to spend money on. It would make sense to try to get some of that funding dropped into Life Safety upgrades as well. Mention the Green side of sprinklers, you can avoid the chance for the building to go up in polluting smoke. Anyone subscribing to this Forum should have the savvy to google their congresspeople, and send em an email pushing for including sprinklers. If you don't, we won't get the funding, and we'll have no one but ourselves to blame. And so long as those email addresses are in front of you, you might want to change the topic and send another email protesting the planned signing of the Employee Free Choice Act, wherein the Free Choice of a secret ballot will be taken away from American workers in favor of a card check by union organizers- with no NLRB election. Congress seems concerned we big bad employers are bullying our workers into not signing up with a union. They seem to miss the reality we experienced years ago, when 300 lb gorillas trespassed onto sites and vehicles in an attempt to sway our workers into being represented by their union. When was the last time you read about non-union workers performing acts of violence and intimidation against signatory workers? It's the other way around, and their success rate of representing our construction industry speaks for itself- from 80% of construction in the 1960's to less than 15% of today's construction industry. And let's face it, they still have 15% of the market since the government clings to the prevailing wages from the 1930's in an artificial propping up of their wage rates. Let's face it, Detroit and Pittsburgh are the poster children of what the autoworkers and steelworkers have done to promote a viable industry here in the USA. The last thing we need when trying to compete in a global economy is less efficiency in our labor. glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: another fire - this will be interesting http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/news_wtnh_Shelton_High_fire_200812301825 Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut www.fpdc.com 860.535.2080 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) **************New year...new news. 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