Maybe, I don't have the '06 there is no exception #2 in the '03. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR Systems Does 2006 IBC 910.1, Exception 2 help? Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146 410-544-3620 Phone 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: ESFR Systems From: "Chris Cahill" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, February 15, 2009 10:28 am To: <[email protected]> Yes but as I said you only get there exclusively when you exceed the storage heights in 910.3 or the S occupancy is less than 50,000 sq.ft. If you are over 50,000 sq.ft. and under 40' (30' for high hazard) of storage wouldn't 910.3 still apply? The theoretical purpose of ch. 23 is to deal with the specific hazard of HPS even when only 500 sq.ft. 910 is to deal with the specific hazard of buildings over 50,000 sq.ft. of certain occupancies. I believe the intention of is to except all smoke control for ESFR, but I don't see that in the black and white and am normally hesitate to assume the intention of the committees. I try to literally read what is there for good and for bad. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR Systems Chris, 2006 IFC Table 2306.2 contains exceptions for venting and draft curtains in ESFR facilities. Is this relevant to your point? Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146 410-544-3620 Phone 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: ESFR Systems From: "Chris Cahill" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, February 13, 2009 9:05 am To: <[email protected]> Unless I'm missing something I don't see where ESFR gets one out of smoke and heat venting in F-1 or S-1 occupancies when over 50,000 sq.ft. I'm looking in IBC 910 or IFC 910. I see draft curtains are traded of ESFR 910.3.4. I'd go even further in that the chart 910.3 doesn't recognize the ESFR exception in the IFC for HPS. The footnote says when in excess of the chart shall be in accordance with IFC ch. 23. So for 18' of storage and over 50,000 sq.ft. as I see it still requires smoke and heat venting even with ESFR. And as far as putting in ESFR in non-HPS or spec buildings it's done all the time at various heights. I agree it shouldn't. I really love the ones (like all) where they don't allow in the calc's for an extra head or two for future obstructions. Perhaps if one is quick we can get a prohibition of ESFR in shell spaces in place for like 2022. That would be the 2016 edition plus the time it takes for anyone to actually adopt. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Sornsin Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:47 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: ESFR Systems That's correct - for F-1 occupancies with more than 50,000 sq.ft. of area. But ESFR is the wrong technology for that type of occupancy (outside of the high-piled storage areas anyway). Unfortunately, that fact is not made clear in the codes (I'm referencing 2006 IFC). Mark -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:40 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Mark Sornsin Subject: RE: ESFR Systems There may be a building code issue involved,whereas by using an "ESFR" sprinkler system, any need for roof ventilation(fans,draft curtains,etc.) may be eliminated.I encountered this on a similar manufacturing facility. Lamar Vaughn,SET Vaughn & Company McDonough,GA --- Mark Sornsin <[email protected]> wrote: > The owner sounds uninformed about ESFR technology. Since there will be no high-piled storage (no commodity), there should be no incentive to use ESFR and deal with the flows and obstruction concerns that come with them. Why have a 54 Ft. building without high-piled storage? Sounds like a building filled with process equipment or the like - certainly a better place for the density/area approach (or comparable special design). > > Mark A. Sornsin, PE > Fire Protection Engineer > Ulteig Engineers, Inc. > Fargo, ND > Direct: 701. 280.8591 > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
