Dude, the standard is clear in every required exit stair. Even the IFC uses similar language. If it ain't required you don't need a standpipe. As a FF I of course think that would be bad design as I would have no idea when the building is on fire which stairs are required and which aren't. Thus I wouldn't know where to find standpipes. As an FPE I agree with myself the FF. Further I'd walk from a job (in a normal economy) where the standpipes weren't in every stair leading to an egress. In this economy I'd certainly write lotsa CYA letters for the only job we would have. (Sorry I do need to eat). As a former AHJ I'd fight for every stair until the judge overruled. My only case lost as AHJ was over an exterior standpipe for a Cathedral copper reroofing job where the Chief wanted a standpipe to reach the top (over 250' above grade no access from the inside). Tactically the Chief was right but the City Council sided with God's representative. Once that happened the City couldn't proceed to a judge. I assume I'm going to Hell anyway so arguing against God really didn't chance anything.
Now I can't think of a place where a stair was there but not required, but it is certainly theoretically possible. (Assuming something can be "certainly theoretical") Closest comes to mind is a convenience stair connecting several floors. Some might go to street some might not. In a legal contest the required part is going to be key if all the experts like the architect show up and have all the exiting calc's done showing the stair in question is not required. My money is on the NFPA committee believes all stairs get standpipes but that is not what they wrote - Steve..... In a legal deposition (or worse on cross in front of the judge) on the side of the standpipe how are you going to answer the questions along the line of Mr. Huggins have you reviewed the Architects exiting analysis? Assuming you had the follow up is - Mr. Huggins is there anything wrong with the analysis as it applies to the minimum requirements of the Code? Assuming there wasn't - Mr. Huggins does the analysis show the stair in question is required? And you wouldn't have gotten this far if it was required - Does the IFC and NFPA 14 refer to standpipes in required stairs? You really are in a corner to say yes - And finally Mr. Huggins what does the LAW say about non-required stairs? I'd guess you'd respond "nothing, but...." And your counsel will have no choice but to drop the matter. I try to use my powers for good so let's change the IFC and NFPA 14 to change this loop hole. Might be as simple as dropping the word required. Now I don't know if Greg's stairs are required or not. I tend to think they are required so really the discussion is mute but it does reveal a flaw in the code that until now I had not thought of. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: side by side standpipes Just because the design exceeds the minimum number of exits needed to meet the travel distance does NOT allow you to say the extra exit is not REQUIRED so no standpipe in it. If it is an actual stairway exit, it is considered required. Roland On Mar 25, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Greg McGahan wrote: > This is an unusual case - it is not for volume or congestion - there > are 4 stairs, (2 sets) within 50-60 feet of each other in an > amusement building. You pay to go up but you get to come down for > free. > > My thoughts were since the hose valves are serving the same area it > is overkill to calc 1,000 gpm at an elevation of only 50' - manual > wet should be allowed per law, but the EOR says auto is what he > wants, serving about 14,000 sqft per floor. > > But Ok, I got what I needed - thanks. > > Greg McGahan > Operations Manager > > Living Water Fire Protection _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
