even the scope of 13R and annex material confirm you can not mix the  
two systems in one building.  As for HORIZONTAL separation equal to  
building separation -as soon as it's possible to have the floor  
collapse and not affect the other side, then we'll talk about  
horizontal separation for two buildings.

Todd - who spec'd it and where does your PE status enter the issue for  
incorrect application of standards?

Roland

On May 28, 2009, at 6:19 AM, John Drucker wrote:

> George,
>
> Careful George don't give em any ideas;  "If they resist you pointing
> out the fact that 13 should apply to the entire building, maybe point
> out that using their logic, you could do the top 4 floors of a
> residential high-rise using 13R?"
>
> This would NOT be permitted since a high-rise would be at least 75ft
> highest occupiable floor above lowest FD vehicle access, or appx a 6-7
> story building wherein 13R is limited to "Residential Occupancies up  
> to
> including four stories in height". Height being measured from grade
> plane.
>
> Guys the title and scope of the standard make it clear 13R is not
> intended for "Residential Occupancies" and not "Mixed Use"  
> occupancies.
> Common areas including private garages; mail, trash, laundry, exercise
> and storage areas that serve the residential occupancy are considered
> "incidental" and appropriately addressed in 13R wherein these spaces  
> are
> designed and installed in according to 13. However in the end its  
> still
> a 13R system and not a 13/13R which simply doesn't exist.  Mixed use
> Buildings are provided for at IBC 508.
>
> Lastly be careful of the IBC Section 509.2 provisions. Read the  
> section
> carefully especially the part; "separate and distinct building for the
> purpose of determining area limitations, continuity of fire walls,
> limitation of number of stories, and type of construction"  There's no
> mention of height with regards to fire sprinkler systems thus the
> measurement is from grade plane and not the pedestal. I'm certain we
> have many a 5 story building out there with 13R systems.
>
> John Drucker

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