I'd be careful to read the 2003 change to NFPA 20 where the committee was concerned the PRV would not function properly.
We've done over a dozen of the PLD-equipped diesels, no big deal especially since the large storage pumps have switched to Tier III and the PLD for ECM is about to be listed/approved by UL/FM. Testing was done in April, paperwork time. We understand PLD for ECM should be in production around 3rdQ, maybe 4thQ this year. With the PLD you really get a nice curve- truncated by reducing the engine speed at churn. Clarke website has a calculator to determine if your application works with the stall speed and particulars of your application. That's why we've used a bunch of these dudes- pretty slick, and the diesel offers substantial increase in reliability. Your pump vendor, if worth his $s, can get you thru the trim piping and differences between diesel and electric. Where's the job located? glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve We agree, see my subsequent post. Re-reading it could be interpreted I meant ignore the head under the obstruction but add heads on a 4th BL. You calc 12 plus up to two in the area that 12 takes up. How you PIPE the 12+2 is what I meant to address. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rnculver Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve Chris, Aren't we supposed to calculate to the most hydraulically demanding area? This would most likely be where these additional sprinklers are needed. Our standard cautions us, when additional ESFR are required, to use care in identifying the appropriate remote area which may require us to include an additional sprinkler on the branch line when located directly the fixed obstructions. Dick -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve If applicable go 4 lines over to add in the 2 obstructed heads. Still 14 calc but no extra on the BL which is where it usually hurts. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 1:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve Yes, the PRV was just one of the suggestions one of the guys mentioned if need be. We were looking at a 100 psi boost, 140 churn + 60 city = 200 psi.. But realistically we could upsize pipe more or find a pump with a flatter curve (or as someone mentioned the new governors on diesels) - we're already figuring 25.2k esfr's. We're looking at calcing 14 esfr's due to obstructions which is the reason for such high pressures.The only reason I brought up the PRV was to see if someone had an installation where one was included we're we can see everything to scale and compare the components and size limitations compared to the typical electrical pump setup. Only one of our guys has any experience with diesel but that was when they used to chisel plans on stone tablets - by his own admission, btw. :-)-Ralphy --- On Wed, 8/5/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve To: "AFSA" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 3:24 PM Can you use a lower-rated pump and still make the calc's work with larger pipe sizes or different (larger) ESFR K-factor? It's not a good practice to arbitrarily over design a pump and then use a device ramp the discharge pressure back down, especially if the only reason is to save on pipe sizing.. How much differential is there between highest anticipated churn and minimum required residual? Also, what are the required flow and pump rating in GPMv Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Ralphy Henderson <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:27:03 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve Sure, this is for ESFR drawing off city water supply. We're looking at potentially high pressures at churn and operation of first few sprinklers. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:57 PM If I might ask, what is the application? In other words, why the reducing valve and how is the discharge main to be configured? Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Diesel Fire Pump with Pressure Reducing Valve Would anyone happen to have an example of a diesel driven fire pump with a pressure reducing valve downstream? I'm tossing around the options with our estimators and we'd like to compare pump room sizes etc...with projects that we've already done consisting of electric driven pumps (which we mostly do). Thanks,Ralphy _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4306 (20090804)__________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4306 (20090804)__________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
