FWIW Brian did say "within 6" of the roof deck in an "open" type ceiling" in the original post. Thus in my mind the 18" problem is eliminated and the concealed space is eliminated.
You are right in the straying of comments. But I don't consider that bad necessarily. It's part of a discussion that leads to learning. Otherwise the scope of potential is rather limited. Now there is some lurker (potentially a newbie) out there saying to himself, myself, yeah there is a difference if this were 18" vs. 6". File that away for another project in the future. Additional learning has occurred because Todd strayed. Good for all of us. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels Todd, Good point but not stated in the original problem. This is a problem/benefit we have on the forum when trying to answer questions. Sometimes we're led down a tangent that confuses an issue and sometimes one that brings up other interesting sidebars. Sometimes I wish we would get a little more info from the poster. The actual height would have been handy here but then your comment might not have been posted and we'd have missed this point. On the other hand Monday's residential bathroom question (lintel/full height door) took me immediately to 13D since I'm spending most of my residential energy these days in attempts to thwart the NAHB's efforts regarding !RC 09. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Todd Williams<[email protected]> wrote: > The standard bracket for this product is 6-1/2", which is within > Chris' 12". However, the product data also says that they can be hung > at any height with standard ceiling wire. So if someone wants to > decrease noise in a manufacturing occupancy and installs these 18" > down, do we now have a potential cloud ceiling problem beyond Light > Hazard occupancies? > > > > At 11:40 AM 8/12/2009, you wrote: >>You are protecting the floor with sprinklers not the deck. Ceiling clouds >>in themselves are not mentioned in the standard. The committee in their >>infinite wisdom decided 12" is an acceptable distance down for a deflector. >>Not counting combustible concealed spaces (which you said this is not) it >>doesn't matter what is going on above the sprinklers. Fly with who, the >>AHJ, not a chance they will win this one. You may choose not to fight if >>they give you grief but that doesn't make them right. I'll turn it around >>where does it say you need them above. Sprinklers are within 12" and then >>you treat obstructions in the various zones (<18" and >18"). It's the >>obstruction part that drives above and below in typical cloud ceilings. If >>you are at 12" in this case where is the obstruction? >> >>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>Fire Protection Engineer >>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >> >>763-658-4483 >>763-658-4921 fax >> >>Email: [email protected] >> >>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:20 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >>Why wouldn't these be treated like ceiling clouds with heads above and >>below? It's open on both sides of the panel (parallel to the joist) to >>deck, how can I get away without protecting the deck? I like your idea way >>better than mine but I'm not sure it will fly. >> >> >>Brian Harris >>FDFP INC. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill >>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:09 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >>I though Jamie answered this Tues. at 2:47 pm. >> >>"Unobstructed construction? Heads 12" down maybe?" >> >>That was my thought. No above and below. You'll have to see if you can >>hide the pipe above, if not exposed. Arch. will have work with you if >>he/she/it wants the pipe covered and you can't fit it above for whatever >>reason. >> >>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>Fire Protection Engineer >>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >> >>763-658-4483 >>763-658-4921 fax >> >>Email: [email protected] >> >>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:56 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >>Standard school construction, CMU walls, Bar Joist, Metal decking. >> >> >>Brian Harris >>FDFP INC. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Seidl Jamie >>D. >>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:53 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >>What is your construction type? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:33 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: FW: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >>Anybody ?? >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Brian Harris >> >>FDFP INC. >> >> >> >> _____ >> >>From: Brian Harris [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:29 PM >>To: '[email protected]' >>Subject: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >> >> >>Has anyone ever come across these Armstrong Optima Capz Panels? For product >>information you can Google "optima capz". Basically they are an acoustical >>panel that are mounted within 6" of the roof deck in an "open" type ceiling >>installation. My question is since it is open to deck all around these >>panels wouldn't you need heads both above and below the panels? With there >>only being 6" max space above these panels and taking into account the top >>chord of the joist it only leaves you with 3" or so to run the pipe, add >>upright heads, and arm-over's to catch the pendants....... Is there some >>code section that addresses situations like this? >> >> >>Regards, >> >> <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) >>Database version: 6.13030 >>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
