Chris, No question about that and I think I mentioned that for that comment my sword was two-edged. I think this mob will stray anyways just 'cause there's as many opinions as there are interpretations. And I didn't recall this particular post having the 6" reference. What I was trying to say was that the original poster has to know that we aren't as intimate with the project as he/she is and details that are so familiar as to be seemingly unimportant to him/her are unknown to us. Complete information gets better answers and though some sidebar info might get lost I don't think it would be much. Enough on that!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Chris Cahill<[email protected]> wrote: > FWIW Brian did say "within 6" of the roof deck in an "open" type ceiling" in > the original post. Thus in my mind the 18" problem is eliminated and the > concealed space is eliminated. > > You are right in the straying of comments. But I don't consider that bad > necessarily. It's part of a discussion that leads to learning. Otherwise > the scope of potential is rather limited. Now there is some lurker > (potentially a newbie) out there saying to himself, myself, yeah there is a > difference if this were 18" vs. 6". File that away for another project in > the future. Additional learning has occurred because Todd strayed. Good > for all of us. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:34 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels > > Todd, > > Good point but not stated in the original problem. This is a > problem/benefit we have on the forum when trying to answer questions. > Sometimes we're led down a tangent that confuses an issue and > sometimes one that brings up other interesting sidebars. Sometimes I > wish we would get a little more info from the poster. The actual > height would have been handy here but then your comment might not have > been posted and we'd have missed this point. On the other hand > Monday's residential bathroom question (lintel/full height door) took > me immediately to 13D since I'm spending most of my residential energy > these days in attempts to thwart the NAHB's efforts regarding !RC 09. > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Todd Williams<[email protected]> wrote: >> The standard bracket for this product is 6-1/2", which is within >> Chris' 12". However, the product data also says that they can be hung >> at any height with standard ceiling wire. So if someone wants to >> decrease noise in a manufacturing occupancy and installs these 18" >> down, do we now have a potential cloud ceiling problem beyond Light >> Hazard occupancies? >> >> >> >> At 11:40 AM 8/12/2009, you wrote: >>>You are protecting the floor with sprinklers not the deck. Ceiling clouds >>>in themselves are not mentioned in the standard. The committee in their >>>infinite wisdom decided 12" is an acceptable distance down for a > deflector. >>>Not counting combustible concealed spaces (which you said this is not) it >>>doesn't matter what is going on above the sprinklers. Fly with who, the >>>AHJ, not a chance they will win this one. You may choose not to fight if >>>they give you grief but that doesn't make them right. I'll turn it around >>>where does it say you need them above. Sprinklers are within 12" and then >>>you treat obstructions in the various zones (<18" and >18"). It's the >>>obstruction part that drives above and below in typical cloud ceilings. > If >>>you are at 12" in this case where is the obstruction? >>> >>>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>>Fire Protection Engineer >>>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >>> >>>763-658-4483 >>>763-658-4921 fax >>> >>>Email: [email protected] >>> >>>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>> >>>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian > Harris >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:20 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>>Why wouldn't these be treated like ceiling clouds with heads above and >>>below? It's open on both sides of the panel (parallel to the joist) to >>>deck, how can I get away without protecting the deck? I like your idea way >>>better than mine but I'm not sure it will fly. >>> >>> >>>Brian Harris >>>FDFP INC. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris > Cahill >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:09 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>>I though Jamie answered this Tues. at 2:47 pm. >>> >>>"Unobstructed construction? Heads 12" down maybe?" >>> >>>That was my thought. No above and below. You'll have to see if you can >>>hide the pipe above, if not exposed. Arch. will have work with you if >>>he/she/it wants the pipe covered and you can't fit it above for whatever >>>reason. >>> >>>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>>Fire Protection Engineer >>>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >>> >>>763-658-4483 >>>763-658-4921 fax >>> >>>Email: [email protected] >>> >>>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>> >>>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >>> Waverly, MN 55390 >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian > Harris >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:56 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>>Standard school construction, CMU walls, Bar Joist, Metal decking. >>> >>> >>>Brian Harris >>>FDFP INC. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Seidl Jamie >>>D. >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:53 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>>What is your construction type? >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian > Harris >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:33 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: FW: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>>Anybody ?? >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Brian Harris >>> >>>FDFP INC. >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>>From: Brian Harris [mailto:[email protected]] >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:29 PM >>>To: '[email protected]' >>>Subject: Armstrong Optima Capz Panels >>> >>> >>>Has anyone ever come across these Armstrong Optima Capz Panels? For > product >>>information you can Google "optima capz". Basically they are an acoustical >>>panel that are mounted within 6" of the roof deck in an "open" type > ceiling >>>installation. My question is since it is open to deck all around these >>>panels wouldn't you need heads both above and below the panels? With there >>>only being 6" max space above these panels and taking into account the top >>>chord of the joist it only leaves you with 3" or so to run the pipe, add >>>upright heads, and arm-over's to catch the pendants....... Is there some >>>code section that addresses situations like this? >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>> <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>>6.13030 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) >>>Database version: 6.13030 >>>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, Connecticut >> www.fpdc.com >> 860.535.2080 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering > Bates Technical College > Tacoma, WA > > Member: > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
