This facility has a plethora of problems, including the fire pump not 
starting. However, if the fire pump did not start when a sprinkler 
discharged (say due to a fire), and the flow without the pump was not 
sufficient to activate the flow switch, would an alarm be sent?



At 12:03 PM 11/2/2009, you wrote:
>UL requires The flowswitch to operate between 4-10 gpm. They typically
>operate much closer to 10 than 4, usually in the 8-10 gpm range but plan
>on 10 to be safe.
>
>If the trip rod went back to the no flow condition than there may be
>less than 4 gpm flowing past the paddle.
>
>The flow must be continuous and must last longer than the retard time.
>
>Is the IT just a 1/2" ball valve or calibrated test gauge?
>
>Is it discharging directly to a drain or the ground or is a hose
>connected to it?
>
>Is it possible to discharge the IT into a 5 gallon bucket for 30 seconds
>to see if you are near 10 gpm?
>
>Regards,
>
>mike
>
>Mike Henke CET
>Sprinkler Product Manager
>Potter Electric Signal
>WWW.Pottersignal.com
>1-800-325-3936
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd
>Williams
>Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:54 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: pump failure/flow alarm
>
>Just had another conversation with the fitter. When the IT is opened,
>the paddle goes up for about 3 seconds and then settles back to
>neutral. My guess is that the majority of water is discharged in the
>first few seconds and the pressure pretty quickly dissipates to
>elevation head only and the flow would be only a trickle. At 50 psi,
>a 1/2" sprinkler would discharge 39.6 gpm initially, rapidly
>declining. How long would the 8 gpm need to be maintained for the
>flow switch to activate? The duration of the delay?
>
>The 39.6 gpm translates to 0.66 gallons per second. If that 50 psi
>remained steady, it would take 12 seconds to discharge 8 gallons,
>well under the 30 second setting on the FS. The minimum 8 gpm flow
>requires a 2 psi discharge out of a 1/2" orifice. Will the pressure
>at the orifice drop from 50 psi to 2 psi in 30 seconds in a closed
>system? Probably.
>
>Am I over thinking again?
>
>
>
>At 11:21 AM 11/2/2009, you wrote:
> >Are the jockey and fire pump not using sensing lines?
> >
> >Joe Burtell
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [email protected]
> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd
>Williams
> >Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:07 AM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: pump failure/flow alarm
> >
> >A situation came up this morning that I probably should know the
> >answer to, but I don't. A building is protected by a 500 gpm at 40
> >psi diesel pump taking suction from a tank (no public water). The
> >pump feeds to 2 sprinkler risers with riser checks and flow switches.
> >The jockey pump pressure is set to approximately 50 psi. If the
> >inspector's test opens and the pump does not turn on, there is not
> >enough flow in the system to activate the flow switch. Consequently,
> >if a sprinkler goes off and the pump does not activate, then no alarm
> >is sent. Having never run into this or heard of it being tested, I
> >don't know if this is normal but it seems like it shouldn't be.  Is
> >this normal? Is it ever tested?
> >
> >My first reaction is what is the delay on the flow switch set to (30
> >seconds). I told them to set to delay to 0 and see what happens. It
> >may be just a situation of getting the setting right. Thoughts?
> >
> >Todd G. Williams, PE
> >Fire Protection Design/Consulting
> >Stonington, Connecticut
> >www.fpdc.com
> >860.535.2080
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sprinklerforum mailing list
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> >
> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >
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>to:[email protected]
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> >
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> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >
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>
>Todd G. Williams, PE
>Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>Stonington, Connecticut
>www.fpdc.com
>860.535.2080
>_______________________________________________
>Sprinklerforum mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
>
>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
>
>To Unsubscribe, send an email
>to:[email protected]
>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
>_______________________________________________
>Sprinklerforum mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
>
>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
>
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>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)

Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080  
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