Right. Maybe we need a sign at the filler connection as on automobiles stating, "Use #2 Diesel only" or whatever. Or put, "Fuel by others" onto the list of standard-form exceptions ... No wiring, no paint, no extinguishers, fuel by others.
Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Bio-diesel in pump drivers You forgot the part about making sure the next guy who fills the tank fills it with the right grade. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 3:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Bio-diesel in pump drivers Thanks Stewart. Since posting the question this morning, I have learned that storage stability is the key concern. The drivers themselves can be built and the ECM's programmed to run on any fuel, but the problem with the biodiesel is the long-term quality of the oil. In California, all engines - per state air quality standards, can you believe it? - have to run on ultra-low sulfur, but it's petroleum and not vegetable based, so storage is viable. The answer to this question appears to be that we now have to specify the type of fuel when ordering the driver, verify that the engine output doesn't have to be de-rated up to 10% as it might be if you're running a driver designed for #2 on red diesel or #1, have the rep verify that you're compliant with the air quality laws of your state. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stewart Kidd Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Bio-diesel in pump drivers Steve The following in my official capacity: Biodiesel will generate some degree of 'fermentation' in the tank. The longer it is stored, the more decay there will be and a greater chance of contamination of the fuel lines of an engine. Tyco have done some work on this and are presently seeking support for a campaign in Europe to make sure non-bio diesel remains available - a number of national governments are imposing % targets of biofuel in diesel and gasoline on fuel suppliers. The issue is more critical for fire pumps and stand-by generators (than for road vehicles)as here is a greater probability that the fuel will sit in the tank for a long time. There have reportedly been a couple of cases where fire pumps have failed to start due to clogged filters. Regards Stewart Stewart Kidd Secretary General British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association Ltd Registered in England in 1974: No 01194637 as a company limited by guarantee Richmond House, Broad Street, Ely CB7 4AH Tel 01353 659187, Fax 01353 666619 Email [email protected] UK Insurers have issued the following guidance through RISCA/FPA: Guidance Note - Diesel Fuel for Automatic Fire Sprinkler Pumps Diesel fuel with a percentage of FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Ester) content derived from crops is increasingly becoming available in the fuel supply chain in the UK, Europe and other regions of the world. Diesel fuels containing a proportion of FAME are often called "Biofuels" or "Biodiesels". In the UK there are legislative requirements for fuels for road use to have some FAME content. We have been advised by the Department for Transport that these requirements for a percentage FAME content do not apply to stationary equipment such as automatic fire sprinkler pumps (and emergency generators). Fuels with FAME content, when compared to hydrocarbon only fuels may have a reduced life. Engines may require additional maintenance at increased frequencies and are likely to experience reduced power output even when running optimally. The frequencies and nature of maintenance will depend upon the engine, percentage FAME content of fuel and quality of the fuel. The manufacturers of the diesel drivers for use in automatic fire sprinkler pumps in the UK specify that their equipment is suitable for use with fuels to BS 2869 Class A2, which currently allows up to 5% FAME content (expressed as "B5" for 5%). It is worth noting that BS 2869 Class A2 with zero % FAME content is still widely available in UK. Advice from fuel suppliers about how long their fuel may be stored in a fuel tank varies. BS 2869 Class A2 at up to 5% FAME content was said to be suitable for storage for between 6-18 months depending on the fuel quality and ambient storage conditions. Generally, higher levels of FAME content decrease the stability of fuel and therefore storage duration. Advice to users of automatic diesel fire pumps from the FPA is: * Use a quality fuel from a reputable supplier; * Use fuel with the lowest FAME content possible[1]; * Ensure maintenance of pump set & driver is undertaken as specified by the equipment manufacturer and by a competent person; * Ensure all clauses of TB203 "Care and Maintenance of Automatic Sprinkler Systems" of the "LPC Rules for Automatic Sprinkler Installations (2009)" are followed[2]; and * Avoid storing fuels for excessive periods (period depends on fuel type and quality - check with supplier) FPA will continue to monitor the situation. If the above advice and that of the pump supplier is followed and problems are encountered, please advise the FPA ([email protected]) of your experience so that we may review and update our advice in time if necessary. FPA, 14th December 2009. [1] At the time of publication, zero percent FAME content fuel was available. Note that pumps using diesel fuel with zero percent FAME content will still require maintenance as specified by the pump set manufacturer and TB203. [2] The weekly testing requirements should be strictly followed to ensure the pump remains in good working order and also to generate fuel turn over On 22 Dec 2009, at 16:30, Steve Leyton wrote: > All: > > > > Anyone have any idea whether or not diesel pump engines are tolerant of > the three families (some would say four) of diesel fuel without issues? > I was asked whether it would be a problem to run a typical pump on > biodiesel, low sulfur or ultra-low sulfur diesel and haven't heard this > talked about like, at all. > > > > Steve Leyton > > PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > > ***** Please Note Our New Address ***** > > 2851 Camino del Rio South, Suite 400 > > San Diego, CA 92108 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ph: 858.751.2930 - ext. 102 > > Fax: 858.751.2933 > > Cell: 619.972.5696 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4710 (20091222) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
