Here is the verbiage if anyone is interested, Ron is correct about the ceiling.

 Does the suspended ceiling meet the design requirements' of ASCE 7-05 sections 
13.5.6.2.2 which states the following, suspended ceilings in Seismic design 
categories D,E, and F shall be designed and installed in accordance with ASTM 
C635, ASTM C636, and the CISCA fro Seismic Zones 3-4 as modified by the 
following:
a. A heavy duty T-Bar grid system shall be used.
b. The width of the perimeter supporting closure angle shall be not less than 
2.0 in.(50mm). In each orthogonal horizontal direction, one end of the ceiling 
grid shall be attached to the closure angle. The other end in each horizontal 
direction shall have a 0.75.(19mm) clearance from the wall and shall rest upon 
and be free to slide on a closure angle.
c. For ceiling areas exceeding 1,000 sqft (92.9m^2), horizontal restraint of 
the ceiling to the structural system shall be provided. The tributary areas of 
the horizontal restraints shall be approximately equal. Exception: Rigid Braces 
are permitted to be used instead of diagonal splay wires. Braces and 
attachments to the structural system above shall be adequate to limit relative 
lateral deflections at point of attachment of ceiling grid to less than 0.25 in 
(6mm) for the loads prescribed in section 13.3.1.
d. For ceiling areas exceeding 2,500sqft (232m^2), a seismic separation joint 
or full height partition that breaks the ceiling up into areas not exceeding 
2,500sqft shall be provided unless structural analysis are performed of the 
ceiling brace system for the prescribed seismic forces that demonstrate ceiling 
system penetrations and closure angles provide sufficient clearance to 
accommodate the anticipated lateral displacement. Each area shall be provided 
with closure angles in accordance with item number 2 and horizontal restraints 
or bracing in accordance with item number 3.
e. Except where rigid braces are used to limit lateral deflections, sprinkler 
heads and other penetrations shall have a 2 inch(50mm) oversize ring, sleeve, 
or adapter through the ceiling tile to allow for free movement of at least 1 
inch in all horizontal  directions. Alternatively, a swing joint that can 
accommodate 1 inch of ceiling movement in all horizontal directions is 
permitted to be provided at the top of the sprinkler head extension.
f. Changes in ceiling plan elevations shall be provided with positive bracing.
g. Cable trays and electrical conduits shall be supported independently of the 
ceiling.
h. Suspended ceilings shall be the subject to the special inspection 
requirements of section 11A.1.3.9 of this standard.
Section 13.5.6.3 Integral Construction ASCE 7-05: As an alternative to 
providing large clearances around sprinkler system penetrations through the 
ceiling system, the sprinkler system and ceiling grids are permitted to be tied 
together as an integral unit. Such a design shall consider the mass and 
flexibility of all elements involved, including the ceiling system, sprinkler 
system, light fixtures, and mechanical (HVAC) appurtenances. Such design shall 
be performed by a registered design professional. 
Section 13.6.8.3 Fire Protection Sprinkler Systems in seismic design categories 
D through F. In structures assigned to seismic design categories D,E,or F, the 
following requirements shall be satisfied.
1.      The hangers and sway bracing of the fire sprinkler system shall be 
deemed to meet the requirements of this section if both the following 
requirements are satisfied: The hangers and sway bracing are designed and 
constructed in accordance with NFPA 13. The force and displacement requirements 
of sections 13.3.1 and 13.3.2 are satisfied. 
2.      The fire protection sprinkler system piping itself shall meet the force 
and displacement requirements of section 13.3.1 and 13.3.2.

Todd Letterman
Fire Prevention Engineer SET CFPS
Riverside County Fire Department   "Fire never sleeps"
(951) 955-5273 FAX (951) 955-4886
[email protected]

" Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass but learning how to dance in 
the rain"


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Over sized escutcheon for seismic clearances

I believe you only have to use the big hole and the big escutcheon
when the ceiling isn't seismically qualified (braced and with tiles
clipped in. Since it's the lack of bracing for the ceiling that's
making the problem why not have the ceiling guy do his job since
ceilings in seismic zones have to meet their seismic requirements. Why
is the owner's building always our problem (not strong enough to hold
our stuff up or moves too much in a seismic event) when isn't built
correctly?

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:02 PM, ParsleyConsulting
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Sal,
>
> I wonder if a listing is required for the escutcheon Randy is referring
> to is required, since it is to be provided for something other than
> aesthetics, such as providing protection for the sprinkler head through
> a ceiling.  The provision for clearance is coming from a section of
> ASCE7.  I don't know if testing is required to confirm that the
> requisite clearance is provided or how the clearance from such an
> escutcheon would function in a seismic event.
>
> Has there been any information transmitted to you, or any of the other
> manufacturer's on this?
> --
> PARSLEY CONSULTING
> Ken Wagoner, SET
> 760.745.6181 voice
> 760.745.0537 fax
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail
> www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website
>
>
>
> Sal Izzo (TECH- 103) wrote:
>> Reliable makes extended escutcheon plates (OOPS plateY  for that purpose 
>> that fit over both friction fit escutcheons and cover plates for our 
>> sprinklers.  These escutcheons are for aesthetic purposed only and do notr 
>> have to be part of any listed escutcheon assembly.  Check the product 
>> solutions section of our website to see if the inner dimension will fit the 
>> sprinkler escutcheon you are using.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Salvatore Izzo PE SFPE
>> Mgr-Reliable Tech Services
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Randy Knutson <[email protected]>
>> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:52:08
>> To: [email protected]<[email protected]>
>> Subject: Over sized escutcheon for seismic clearances
>>
>> Forum Members,
>>
>> On one of our projects, we have to maintain a 2" clearance between the
>> Armstrong ceiling tile and the sprinkler assembly.
>>
>> Do the escutcheon plates that cover this bigger hole have to be listed? We
>> are using Tyco TY-FRB SSP's with recessed escutcheons and I don't see that
>> Tyco manufactures an expansion plate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Knutson, CET
>>
>> Sales Manager
>>
>> Shilo Automatic Sprinkler, Inc.
>>
>> 208-466-0006 ext 119
>>
>> 208-466-7890 fax
>>
>>
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering
Bates Technical College
Tacoma, WA

Member:
SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC


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