Chris, But if this isn't the case, or if there's no criteria to assume extra corrosion then you just use what the code says. If you expect extra corrosion you have to look, and then, as Thom says, what is the arbitrary value you assign to C? And, if as I said in my first comment in this thread, schedules always are always based on empirical results of what has been observed to work and not work over time with allowance for the worst cases (those that didn't work) then most things end up over built when building to a schedule. Back in the early days of Friedrich Grinnell and John Wormald maximum coverage per head for ordinary hazard was 90 sqft and extra hazard was 60 sqft. We all know 3/4" pipe was used. Hopefully we all know that 52K and 40K maximum per system are based on how high the pipe schedule went. That the bell was by the FDC not so the FDC could be found but because the WMG was the ONLY alarm device, that it was cheapest to put it as close to the riser as possible, that it was cheapest to put the FDC as close to the riser as possible and so the bell and FDC were in the same spot for economic reasons. As you've said many times the AHJ can't just decide something based on whim.
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Chris Cahill <[email protected]> wrote: > Not entirely George. Was the pipe schedule appropriate for the hazard when > installed? Has the commodity changed? Odds are if it is PS it's old thus > there have been many changes that rightfully should be investigated. You > wouldn't be surprised how many old systems had no correlation to any > standard on how to protect a hazard. I ran in to this often and always gave > the owner (through his reps) a chance to show when it was installed 13, > 231c, FM or anything else this was the appropriate installation. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:20 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: Pipe Schedule Systems > > Sounds like the AHJ may be overstepping his boundries. Additions to Pipe > schedule systems are allowed without calcs in #13. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of steve > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AFSA > Subject: Re: Pipe Schedule Systems > > The standard requires a minimum pressure be available at the highest/most > remote sprinkler - is that the "calc" that's been requested? Still no > requirement for a hose allowance though. > > Steve > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Matthew J. Willis" <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:59:48 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Pipe Schedule Systems > > Then it will no longer be a pipe schedule, but a calculated system. Which > requires hose streams. > > R/ > Matt > > > > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > Automatic Fire Sprinklers > Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > 318-387-1134 Voice > 318-816-1087 Mobile > 318-387-1163 Facsimile > [email protected] >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:sprinklerforum- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >> >Harris >> >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:57 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Pipe Schedule Systems >> > >> >David- >> >We are doing some minor work to an existing warehouse that was done >> >with the pipe schedule method. Now the AHJ wants us to provide >> >hydraulic calc's to show him if the existing system will work. >> > >> >Brian Harris >> >FDFP Inc. >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Autry, >> >David >> >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Pipe Schedule Systems >> > >> >What exactly would you add it to? >> > >> >David Autry >> >Plans Examiner >> >Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office >> >246 S. 14th Street >> >Lincoln, NE 68508 >> >402-471-9659 >> >402-471-3118 fax >> >www.sfm.ne.gov >> > >> >** Note new email address: [email protected] >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >> >Harris >> >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:36 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: Pipe Schedule Systems >> > >> >I swear I read somewhere that for a pipe schedule system you do not >> >need to add hose allowance, Am I nuts? >> > >> > >> > >> >Brian Harris >> > >> >First Defense Fire Protection >> > >> >11957 Ramah Church Road >> > >> >Huntersville, NC 28078 >> > >> >Phone: 704.948.3506 >> > >> >Fax: 704.948.3507 >> > >> >Nicet # 128476 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15890) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ ======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15890) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ ======= >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15890) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ ======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in >> >this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3137 - Release Date: >> >09/16/10 >> >01:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
