I believe I could root around and POINT TO WHERE OTHERS WROTE 70% open, and I 
believe it was those rocket scientists at FM Global. The caps are for emphasis 
that I didn't make a judgment call, I know where to find something defensible. 
PLEASE realize that this was a compliment to FM, no sarcasm at all. Last week's 
tour did nothing but reinforce the already positive impression I have of FM 
Global.

glc

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
[email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48"

I can't shed any light on the banner situations, but I am interested to know 
what forumites normally consider for minimum gap between pipes on a pipe rack 
exceeding 48" before they have to be considered a solid obstruction.

Thanks,



James L (Jim) Roberts, PE/SET | FLUOR | Principal Fire Protection Engineer – 
Central Engineering | [email protected] | IODC 20.5149 | O
+1.864.281.5149 | www.fluor.com





















From:       <[email protected]>
To:         <[email protected]>
Date:       10/04/2010 02:25 PM
Subject:    RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48"
Sent by:    [email protected]



What kind of occupancy?   If these banners could come loose and fall would
it cause an egress issue for occupants trying to exit the area in an emergency?

Essentially it sounds like these banners are creating a sub-level ceiling below 
the sprinklers.  I believe in one of the previous discussions it was mentioned 
about these types of items being suspended with some type of fusible link so 
that they could drop out of the way of the sprinkler discharge in a fire event.

Other issue is if they would not drop out of the way would they hold water from 
a sprinkler to the point where the banner could either dump a large amount of 
water on person below or fill to the point it could create an issue with the 
structure's ability to support the weight?

What will 18" below the heads accomplish?

Suggestion: Put the banners on the wall.

Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[email protected]
http://www.ch2m.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [ 
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: multiple obstructions that total more than 48"

I recall this has been discussed, but not recently.



Is there guidance anywhere as to how much gap needs to be between obstructions 
(each individual obstruction being no more than 48" wide) so that sprinklers 
are not needed beneath them?



More specifically, I have a project where the architect would like to install 
banners beneath the ceiling and does not want sprinklers beneath the banners.  
I'm fairly confident he's  willing to lower the banners so they're at least 18" 
below the sprink deflectors.  He's also willing to make them narrower (48" max 
wide). But he would like to place them as close together as possible (without 
needing sprinks below them).



Anybody aware of any guidelines for this?



Ed Kramer

Littleton, CO

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