We call them feel good sprinklers. Some jurisdictions make us put them in while others do not. The heads at the deck will almost certainly active first preventing the water shielded heads from operating. If it is light or ordinary hazard and the obstructions are not structural the heads aren't required, are they?
Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" But what is a pipe rack more than 48" wide with space between pipes, if not an open grid ceiling? If it looks like a duck and quack's like a duck, treat it like a duck! Just cause it’s a goose, doesn't mean that it's really any different than a duck. We quite often see pipe racks that are in corridors and wall to wall. At some locations they have only pipe in half at others they are full. Sometimes there is a conduit rack below them. We use water shielded heads below and SSU's above. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" George, I was thinking (a bad practice for me) that the 70% was for open grid ceilings. It would be hard to have 70% open in a pipe rack. Jim James L (Jim) Roberts, PE | FLUOR | Principal Fire Protection Engineer – Central Engineering | [email protected] | IODC 20.5149 | O +1.864.281.5149 | www.fluor.com From: "George Church" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Date: 10/04/2010 03:21 PM Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" Sent by: [email protected] I believe I could root around and POINT TO WHERE OTHERS WROTE 70% open, and I believe it was those rocket scientists at FM Global. The caps are for emphasis that I didn't make a judgment call, I know where to find something defensible. PLEASE realize that this was a compliment to FM, no sarcasm at all. Last week's tour did nothing but reinforce the already positive impression I have of FM Global. glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" I can't shed any light on the banner situations, but I am interested to know what forumites normally consider for minimum gap between pipes on a pipe rack exceeding 48" before they have to be considered a solid obstruction. Thanks, James L (Jim) Roberts, PE/SET | FLUOR | Principal Fire Protection Engineer – Central Engineering | [email protected] | IODC 20.5149 | O +1.864.281.5149 | www.fluor.com From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Date: 10/04/2010 02:25 PM Subject: RE: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" Sent by: [email protected] What kind of occupancy? If these banners could come loose and fall would it cause an egress issue for occupants trying to exit the area in an emergency? Essentially it sounds like these banners are creating a sub-level ceiling below the sprinklers. I believe in one of the previous discussions it was mentioned about these types of items being suspended with some type of fusible link so that they could drop out of the way of the sprinkler discharge in a fire event. Other issue is if they would not drop out of the way would they hold water from a sprinkler to the point where the banner could either dump a large amount of water on person below or fill to the point it could create an issue with the structure's ability to support the weight? What will 18" below the heads accomplish? Suggestion: Put the banners on the wall. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: multiple obstructions that total more than 48" I recall this has been discussed, but not recently. Is there guidance anywhere as to how much gap needs to be between obstructions (each individual obstruction being no more than 48" wide) so that sprinklers are not needed beneath them? More specifically, I have a project where the architect would like to install banners beneath the ceiling and does not want sprinklers beneath the banners. I'm fairly confident he's willing to lower the banners so they're at least 18" below the sprink deflectors. He's also willing to make them narrower (48" max wide). But he would like to place them as close together as possible (without needing sprinks below them). Anybody aware of any guidelines for this? Ed Kramer Littleton, CO _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. 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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
