Explain that 2007 is nothing but a big TIA for 2002, maybe that will switch on the light bulb. Ken from the "other guys" explained it that way and it seemed to have clarity- until the explanation fell on CMS's ears ni Blatimore and they explained the DOH doesn't (in fact, can't) enforce a TIA to the 1999 #13 for any health care facility in the US, no matter what the applicable building code references for applicable edition of #13. So you need to design to 1999 #13 AND the applicable edition, if there is mixed AHJs DOH and Local/State.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction Todd, I understand that you are using 2002 but I still believe a credible argument exists in presenting the info from 2007. The heads that are approved for this condition are no different than the heads that you have installed. Besides the section I already gave you (6.8.1.5.3.1) there is another that is applicable - the 'shadow' rule - 6.7.7.1.5.7 - it sounds like what you have meets this also. In addition, if your mech room does not have a door but merely an access panel the head is not even required unless it is a gas-fired unit. (6.9.6) All of these are from the 2007. I don't have the 2002 handy. Hope something helps with this situation! Cliff -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction Probably to justify his job. It is a 13R building under 2002. He didn't allow the exception because the closet ceiling is greater than 5 ft (Actual 8ft). Still negotiating. At 07:54 AM 11/2/2010, you wrote: >Interesting how a design issue has now turned into an unreasonable AHJ issue >with demands for citations and suggestions for sprinkler locations. >Looks like big $ to reconfigure all these mechanical spaces to be able >to add sprinklers per their listings and avoid obstructions. Why is >the AHJ under the gun to justify and negotiate at this point? > >Bill Brooks > >William N. Brooks, P.E. >Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. >372 Wilett Drive >Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 >410-544-3620 >410-544-3032 FAX >412-400-6528 Cell > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >[email protected] >Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:13 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction > >So ask this AHJ where he would like you to place this non-code >compliant sprinkler in this space.I still think your best bet is to >place it in the corner,that way you cover the most floor space (1/2 of >2.222----REALLY???)and get enough water bouncing around this spce till >it finds the fire. :) And BTW,be sure to keep the head a minimum of 4" >off the wall ..... oh yea,you only HAVE 4". > >Lamar Vaughn > > >On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Todd Williams wrote: > > > I agree. This was a "what do I do?" call from a client this afternoon. > > He was going to try to meet with the AHJ, but he was the one who had > > written it up as being obstructed. Someone at the Convention asked > > me where I find these people. Directly or indirectly, they find me. > > > > > > At 05:39 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote: > >> It's kind of ridiculous that you have to even have a discussion > >> about this. What's the AHJ want you to do? > >> > >> Craig L. Prahl, CET > >> Fire Protection Specialist > >> Mechanical Department > >> CH2MHILL > >> Lockwood Greene > >> 1500 International Drive > >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > >> Direct - 864.599.4102 > >> Fax - 864.599.8439 > >> [email protected] > >> http://www.ch2m.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd > >> Williams > >> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:27 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction > >> > >> The 16x16 duct runs vertically off the top of the unit. there is no > >> bottom of duct > >> > >> > >> > >> At 05:11 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote: > >>> Blow up the HVAC unit?, just ;) > >>> > >>> Locate the head with deflector at bottom of the 16" deep > >>> obstruction. Show the section where head can be located up to 22" > >>> for obstructed construction. > >>> > >>> Tony > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>> Todd Williams > >>> Sent: November 1, 2010 3:01 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction > >>> > >>> Existing condition. Not going to happen > >>> > >>> > >>> At 04:43 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote: > >>>> It may be hard for him to shove the HVAC unit against the wall. > >>>> With > >>>> the minimal space allowed in this closet he still needs room to > >>>> make duct connections, electrical connections, drain connections > >>>> etc. > >>>> But > >>>> hey you could ask. > >>>> > >>>> Craig L. Prahl, CET > >>>> Fire Protection Specialist > >>>> Mechanical Department > >>>> CH2MHILL > >>>> Lockwood Greene > >>>> 1500 International Drive > >>>> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > >>>> Direct - 864.599.4102 > >>>> Fax - 864.599.8439 > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://www.ch2m.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: [email protected] > >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:25 PM > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: RE: Mechanical closet obstruction > >>>> > >>>> Todd, > >>>> This is just a thought.Get the HVAC contractor to shift the unit > >>>> into the corner,then place the sprinkler in the opposite,leaving > >>>> 8" > >>>> clear on > >>>> 2 sides.You can maintain the 4" min. off the wall and cover ALL > >>>> the clear space in the room.Right? > >>>> > >>>> Lamar Vaughn > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Todd Williams wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> This is under the 2002 code and they have the 5 ft ceiling > >>>>> height restriction. I believe this is an 8 ft ceiling. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:28 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote: > >>>>>> Todd, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If this is residential, 6.8.1.5.3.1 specifically addresses this > >>>>>> concern. > >>>>>> 2007 ed. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cliff > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: [email protected] > >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>>>>> Todd Williams > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 1:22 PM > >>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>> Subject: Mechanical closet obstruction > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I know this was referenced in another post, but I can't find it > >>>>>> so I'm starting a new thread. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A 2' x 2' mechanical closet. The unit is mounted on the floor > >>>>>> and a 16" x 16" plenum comes off the top and runs up through > >>>>>> the ceiling at roughly the center of the room (approximately 4" > >>>>>> clearance on each side). One sidewall sprinkler is installed > >>>>>> near the ceiling and the AHJ questions the head being > >>>>>> obstructed. Outside of installing 4 sprinklers in the closet, > >>>>>> any good way to address this? The State Building Code > >>>>>> specifically excludes the application of > >>> common sense. > >>>>>> Thoughts? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Todd G. Williams, PE > >>>>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT > >>>>>> 860.535.2080 > >>>>>> www.fpdc.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerfor > >>>>>> um > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>>>>> to:[email protected] > >>>>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerfor > >>>>>> um > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>>>>> to:[email protected] > >>>>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>>>> > >>>>> Todd G. Williams, PE > >>>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT > >>>>> 860.535.2080 > >>>>> www.fpdc.com > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforu > >>>>> m > >>>>> > >>>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>>>> to:[email protected] > >>>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>>> > >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>>> to:[email protected] > >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>>> > >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>>> to:[email protected] > >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>> > >>> Todd G. Williams, PE > >>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting > >>> Stonington, CT > >>> 860.535.2080 > >>> www.fpdc.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>> > >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>> to:[email protected] > >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>> > >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >>> to:[email protected] > >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> Todd G. Williams, PE > >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting > >> Stonington, CT > >> 860.535.2080 > >> www.fpdc.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >> to:[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > >> to:[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, CT > > 860.535.2080 > > www.fpdc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > > [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
