But isn't the end head even for you non-shkey guys supposed to be restrained from upward thrust? And wouldn't that be the more applicable reference for Chris' concern?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Chris Cahill <[email protected]> wrote: > Code wise I defer to Roland. But there are certainly some variables here at > play not addressed. Size of system, air in system and how far above 100. I > am a little concerned about 174 psi on a 50,000 sq.ft. HPS with gridded 3" > BL's system with a riser ITV, that also feeds the office. The first heads is > going to "jump" is it not? The duration over 100 with air in the system is > going to be more than momentary. Isn't this the concern, it jumps over the > ceiling and becomes useless. > > Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Greenman <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:21:59 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Hangers and pressure surges > > And if the trapped surge pressure was over 100# but the overall > pressure was not you would already have a static exceeding 100 and > need the hanger anyways. If you then release a head anywhere in the > system you won't have a sudden momentary increase in pressure but an > immediate drop towards residual. That is: 1. That I'm understanding > the question, or 2. that we're still on planet Earth. > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Roland Huggins > <[email protected]> wrote: >> I don't believe it was the intent to apply the requirement to the possible >> build-up of pressure from surges but to the actual available supply. The >> definition in 3.3.19 does state exclusive of surges. Combined with the new >> expansion of requiring a relief valve on all wet pipe systems instead of >> just gridded systems (7.1.2.1 2010 ed), says to me that it's the >> characteristics of the water supply that drive the requirement. >> >> Roland >> >> >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Sam Kassab wrote: >> >>> The pressure relief seems like the best option in this case. >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback. >>> >>> Sam Kassab >>> TridenT FIRE PROTECTION, INC. >>> 13631 Pawnee Rd. , Suite A-1 >>> Apple Valley, CA 92308 >>> Tel : (760) 961-7222 >>> Fax : (866) 501-5942 >>> Cell: (805) 801-4676 >>> Lic. C-16 935502 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris >>> Cahill >>> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:12 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Hangers and pressure surges >>> >>> The issue is most problematic when the head first pops. So I think the >>> AHJ >>> has a point. Oh and 9.2.3.4.4.1 seems to actually support the AHJ legally >>> where it clearly says static or flowing. >>> >>> Now if your real static without surge is below 100 you have the option of >>> controlling surges instead or changing hangers as I would interpret. >>> >>> Chris >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Sam Kassab" <[email protected]> >>> Sender: [email protected] >>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:46:49 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Hangers and pressure surges >>> >>> NFPA requires hangers to be installed on armovers over 12" when operating >>> pressure is over 100 PSI. What if normal street pressure is below 100 PSI >>> and pressure surges cause a build-up of 100 PSI or more on the system side >>> of the check valve? The AHJ's argument is that the system will have over >>> 100 PSI when the system first operates, albeit for a brief moment. Is the >>> AHJ correct in his interpretation of this requirement? Has anyone ever >>> come >>> across this question? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sam Kassab >>> >>> TridenT FIRE PROTECTION, INC. >>> >>> 13631 Pawnee Rd. , Suite A-1 >>> >>> Apple Valley, CA 92308 >>> >>> Tel : (760) 961-7222 >>> >>> Fax : (866) 501-5942 >>> >>> Cell: (805) 801-4676 >>> >>> Lic. C-16 935502 >>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>_______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
