So let's split the frog hair one more time. If the attic is another floor of the building because it has a door and a floor do the egress rules apply? Should the sprinkler contractor tell the GC that he has to add an exit to outside or another stair because it should really be considered a floor, not an attic as the labeled on the permitted plans? I buy the need for sprinklers because it's accessible for storage but I don't agree that it is by IBC rule another story of the building.
Some years ago we did a three floor extended care facility. The floors were concrete plank as was the ceiling of the top floor. The construction was none combustible. The only door to the attic was on a 2nd floor mezzanine in the neighboring 2 story wing of the building. The attic was at least 20 ft. high 50 ft wide, over 300 ft long and the roof sloped from the peak all the way to the floor. There were no lights and no duct just wide open space. We gave the GC a price to add sprinklers he said that if they were required we would have to put them in for free. The space does not have sprinklers. We went on record about it being labeled attic not storage and not a floor according to the permitted plans. I hope they never have a fire. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: DEFINITION OF A CONCEALED SPACE The difference I see is that an "Attic" is between the ceiling of one floor and the roof. Where-as what we were presented with is a concrete floor and an exposed roof structure, which the code not the Arch. Calls a "story". Arch. Are famous for calling things on the drawing one thing while the code requires them to be protected as something else entirely. I especially like when in a warehouse the put "Future Office" with dotted lines, and want to know why the OH system must go over their LH office area. The other point I'd make, in ref. to the LH vs. OH space is anything with a concrete floor and a door will eventually become storage. An attic is allowed to be LH because it is not "Easy" or convenient to store stuff in it. The area as described sound both easily accessible and convenient to access thru the door. The "Attic" theory could apply IF the concrete floor is the ceiling of a floor below, and doesn't have the means of access required to be considered a Mezz. Or floor by the building code. That door must come from somewhere, is that another "Floor"?? So this would just be an extension of that floor? As far as what does combustible vs. non-combustible have to do with whether or not it's an attic? Nothing. Warehouses can be combustible construction. We often see Arch. Calling a Mechanical Mezz. With enclosed stairwells, rated doors, bathrooms and everything needed to be a floor "Attic's" Just because they Mislabeled it doesn't mean we'll be allowed to treat it as an attic. Or not install a standpipe. We may have a good case to get a CO to do it, but the building officials or FM will still say if it's and attic or Mech. Mezz and "4th floor" Or Floor 30'-0" or more above the lowest level of FDP access. Now it's only worth 1/2 a farthing. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: DEFINITION OF A CONCEALED SPACE I know that if it is combustible and the FP System is per NFPA #13 the hair we are splitting is if it is LH or OH but, wouldn't whether it is considered a story or not be something decided by the architect and the local building department? If the plans call it an attic or don't call it anything at all and it's not calculated as part of the total square feet of the building then it should be an attic. By calling the attic a an occupied space a three story building with an accessible attic would be 4 stories and require a standpipe system. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
