I know Cecil already withdrew this but I think it's important that we are term specific. What I believe 8.8.5.2.1.5 ref. is a Wood Bar Joist as shown in Fig. A3.7.2 of 2007 or A3.7.2(a) or A3.7.2(c)in 2010. I thought that the orginal discussion was for "Roof Trusses" and while I have seen Wood bar joist used to support the roof, a roof truss would be more like Fig. 8.6.4.1.4 in 2010 and 2007 or Exhibit 8.20 in 2007 or 8.21 in 2010. Words have meaning?
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 4:25 PM To: FORUM Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space If the sprinklers are listed for unobstructed combustible construction, they would be allowed to be spaced in between the wood trusses spaced 24" on center. This is the exception to the four times rule that is nearly identical to the exception to the three times rule. This would (or could) apply to your specific situation. 8.8.5.2.1.5 Sprinklers shall be permitted to be located onehalf the distance between the obstructions where the obstruction consists of wood bar joists 20 in. (0.51 m) or greater apart, provided that the top and bottom chords of the wood bar joist are not greater than 4 in. (102 mm) (nominal) in width and bar members do not exceed 1 in. (25.4 mm) in width. It should be recognized that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA, and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the the NFPA, nor any of their technical committees. Sincerely, Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com [email protected] OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:17:20 -0500 > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > > 2007 8.4.3 (2) Unobstructed or noncombustible obstructed where specifically listed for such use. If they do not meet the spacing requirements, then they are improperly applied, but they could be there from a code standpoint. > > Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP > Sales Engineer > Alliance Fire Protection > 130 w 9th Ave. > North Kansas City, MO 64116 > > *Licensed in KS & MO > > 913.888.0647 ph > 913.888.0618 f > 913.927.0222 cell > www. AFPsprink.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 4:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > > I still don't see anything which would override 8.4.3's reqmnt for smooth, flat ceilings / roof (smooth being defined as 7'-6" + on center) If it could be done I still wouldnt' be able to comply with Tyco's 4x rule; that would mean I need to be 16" away from 2x4 web members that are spaced 24" o/c. I couldn't space it 4x without being too close to one side of the truss or the other.... > > > > --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Matt Grise <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Matt Grise <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 8:56 PM > > I think it says that if you have members greater than 1", you must apply the 4times rule. I was looking at pg 4 of the cutsheet. > > Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP > Sales Engineer > Alliance Fire Protection > 130 w 9th Ave. > North Kansas City, MO 64116 > > *Licensed in KS & MO > > 913.888.0647 ph > 913.888.0618 f > 913.927.0222 cell > www. AFPsprink.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > > 3'-10" > > I'll have another look at the spec sheet. I thought the Tyco's were only for trusses with a web no greater than 1" (ie. bar joists). > > Thx, > > > --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Matt Grise <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Matt Grise <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 8:43 PM > > What is the distance from the deck to the drop ceiling? The EC 11 heads are listed for unobstructed, combustible construction. > > Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP > Sales Engineer > Alliance Fire Protection > 130 w 9th Ave. > North Kansas City, MO 64116 > > *Licensed in KS & MO > > 913.888.0647 ph > 913.888.0618 f > 913.927.0222 cell > www. AFPsprink.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > > Yeah, but I'm looking at an 11.2K e/c at 18x18 in wood trusses. > > --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Richard Carr <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Richard Carr <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: EC Upright in Attic Space > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 7:52 PM > > THE Tyco CC2 head will let you do 144 sq. ft. > > Richard Carr, SET > Design Manager > Associated Sprinkler Co., LLC > 336.373.3901 ext 217 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralphy Henderson > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: EC Upright in Attic Space > > I'm looking at some pre-designed fire sprinkler drawings showing extended coverage uprights in a concealed combustible space above a grid ceiling consisting of open web wood trusses (relatively no pitch) at 24" o/c. > > Looking at 8.4.3. (2007 ed) I don't think this is permissible mainly because of the "smooth, flat" criteria. Am I right? And does someone make an EC upright that can possibly be used in this scenario (besides the Tyco attic sprinklers). > > Thanks, > Ralph > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should not read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or attachments. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
