Wow, thanks Cliff. I want to do the right thing period. This particular issue aside, I think this worth an informal def for future reference. Greg On Apr 9, 2011 4:08 PM, "Cliff Whitfield" <[email protected]> wrote: > Ron, > > Good advice. And we all need 'Dads' at some point in time (even us old > guys). I can tell you that what I know of Greg he is an honorable guy and > would never intentionally do the wrong thing. My hope is that it will turn > out well for him and instead of it being a 'bad thing' that it turn out well > for all involved. > > Cliff > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:44 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: ENCLOSED COMBUSTIBLE STAIRS > > Greg, > > If it doesn't meet one of the allowable exceptions in 13, which it > doesn't sound like it does, then you have only two choices. To force > the issue or to pretend it doesn't exist. To do the latter is a > dis-service to the owner who is expecting a proper job. The GC is the > culprit. As I said, it is his job to coordinate the work and he has > failed. in his responsibility to the owner. If he does not understand > this then perhaps you're better off without him. Next he'll want you > to glue heads to the ceiling. Once you take a small ignore a small > thing in a conspiratorial manner (you and the GC hiding something from > the owner and the AHJ) you have surrendered your morals, ethics, and > ability to take a stand with that contractor for all time. You have > also compromised yourself here. Of course this is difficult in these > economic times, and it's easy for me to say from my cushy (or so I'm > told) public employee position, but I can tell you I'm here because I > had to leave a very lucrative management position when I took the side > of a customer over that of my boss in a contract dispute because my > boss (who has since done time in the Federal pokey for income tax > issues) was trying to cheat a good, and honorable man, and I had to do > the right thing, even if it cost me my job. Worked out well for me, > but at the time being ethical was early scary as I was the sole source > of income for five people and operating under a non-compete agreement. > I'll tell you the whole story someday if you're interested but it was > only over about $3000.00 dollars. And all I had to do was answer a yes > or no question the other way to save my job and sell my soul. Now I'm > feeling like your dad so I'll shut up. > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: >> That's not my option guys. We were hired to do two things, relocate heads >> for the new wall and add two heads in a concealed space. The g.c. > knowingly >> blocked it in and sealed it off with no intentions for further actions on >> his or our part. >> >> The only thing I can do is rationalize reasonably if possible why it is ok >> as is or call the fire marshall as a whistle blower. >> >> That is an easy decision if you are not worried about losing the > inspection >> contract or being black listed by the general. >> >> So am I grasping for a legal straw? Absolutely. If those on the 13 > commitee >> and the majority of the rest believe it is too much of a stretch, then I >> will play whistle blower.......we do NOT want to leave it unjustifyably >> wrong. >> Greg >> On Apr 9, 2011 10:28 AM, "Thom" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Then I'd say have the GC drywall it and mmake it a concealed >> Non-combustible >>> space. Or just blow it full of insul. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg >> McGahan >>> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 3:19 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: ENCLOSED COMBUSTIBLE STAIRS >>> >>> No, it is not a room, it is a combustible concealed space UNDER an area >> ... >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Thom <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> It's not truly the "Space over the small room" it is the small room. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg >>>> McGahan >>>> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 2:44 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: ENCLOSED COMBUSTIBLE STAIRS >>>> >>>> We were hired to put 2 heads under a new combustible set of stairs that >>>> were >>>> added as an emergency egress in an existing LH building. The GC "forgot" >>>> and >>>> enclosed the stairs - space approximately 3-6 x 18' long - and finished >>> the >>>> space. We still have to relocate a couple of heads in an adjacent area > so >>>> we >>>> are not completely free of any obligations there. Note that this space > is >>>> under a one floor stair and contains NOTHING, no wires, pipes, ducts, > etc >>>> except the framing. >>>> >>>> Question: Is there any chance this would even be in the same ballpark as >>>> the >>>> exception in chapter 8.15.1.2.9 for spaces over isolated small >>>> rooms.....Since a permit was not required on this project, the AHJ does >>> not >>>> know about it and the only question is morally how hard we push this >>>> situation. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your thoughts. >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Greg McGahan >>>> Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> >>>> 1160 McKenzie Road >>>> Cantonment, FL 32533 >>>> 850-937-1850 >>>> fax 850-937-1852 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Greg McGahan >>> Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> >>> 1160 McKenzie Road >>> Cantonment, FL 32533 >>> 850-937-1850 >>> fax 850-937-1852 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
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