I'll jump in from the AHJ's perspective; though our agency has put more emphasis on IT&M than most jurisdictions. Yes, we require reports to be submitted AND we review them.
To keep on topic, I personally would appreciate seeing a notation about extra items attached or secured to the piping. I don't care if it's on the NFPA 25 inspection report, on a separate letter identifying issues that need further investigation or even on a napkin mailed with no return address. I understand the liability issues faced by the contractors however, the AHJ's willing to address the issues can't if we don't know about it. With current staff reductions, the likelihood of us getting to every business is getting slimmer and slimmer. Our agency would make contact with the property owner and if no original approval documentation could be found, do an evaluation based on the closest editions we could identify as being applicable at the time versus what is needed today. That evaluation would be done jointly with their contractor, either a licensed designer who can tell us how to design it today or with a local qualified engineer. No matter what, a correction notice would be issued where I would lean to Chris's reference in NFPA 25. Oh, you think there are problems on the wet side? I had a feeling yesterday while looking at a fire alarm report and thought something wasn't right. Upon further look, the property went from 103 ionization detectors to 121 photoelectric detectors in the course of a year. We lost two supervisory switches, gained 6 heat detectors and a water flow switch. The neighboring building in the complex went from 101 photoelectric to 32 ionization detectors. Whooopps, I went off topic there, didn't I? Have a great weekend! David Smith | Deputy Fire Marshal CITY OF VANCOUVER Fire Department P.O. Box 1995 * Vancouver, WA 98668-1995 P: 360.487.87240| F: 360.487.7244| WA Relay: 711 www.cityofvancouver.us -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 1:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates installed I think the consensus here is that these things don't work, are prohibited in the 2010 edition of 13, need to be noted and documented when found, and should be removed and the system corrected. The argument is how to note and document, not whether or not to. Since a 25 report form filled out by a tech has as much enforcement weight as a note on a napkin, the decision to fix things rests with the long-term consideration of what is best for his business businessman, or more likely, the demand of the FM. Given that the contractor and technician are only concerned with noting and reporting, and about everything I've heard from the committee members, and as mentioned here by Top, I'd think it prudent to CYA with reporting and also by NOT doing it on the actual test reports, but rather on a supplemental document. That said I'm leaning towards the foreign matter argument as a legitimate 25 issue. This has been a good discussion. Mostly on topic. For fun I suggest you watch the SFPE discussion board. 50% of the answers have nothing to do with the topic/question raised, as if no one actually read it, and another 30% become pitches for how one PE can answer the other PE's question for a fee. My image is chickens rushing around like, well, chickens with their heads cut-off, when you throw the grain into the pen. Good for a laugh. On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Mike Cabral <[email protected]>wrote: > The heat collector shown looks like a product mfg by ASCOA which was > intended for use with HAD's for Supertex Systems. > > I think the product was listed for the application however not intended > for sprinklers only for HAD's . I assume same principals would apply to a > HAD as a sprinkler. ASCOA was selling these in 1995 when I left Automatic. > I > recall customers ordering this product because it was called a Heat > Collector and used them rather than a pie plate which was used rather > extensively in the State of CA on drops installed in a spec office building > with no ceiling installed. > > After a someone was moving in the ceiling was installed and the Pie Plates > where removed. As I recall this was done frequently in Northern CA > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 2, 2012, at 1:52 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > http://www.hss.doe.gov/SESA/Analysis/oesummary/oesummary2002/oe2002-20.pdf > > > > here's one. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brad Casterline [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 1:26 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates > > installed > > > > > http://www.dps.alaska.gov/fire/PRB/docs/codeforum/AutomaticSprinklers_Sprink > > lerHeatCollectors.pdf > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > Just FYI-- i'll search for the "evidence" mentioned in the article. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120802/673954ca/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
