To those who say this is outside of scope of NFPA-25 you are correct. To those of you who want to call it a deficiency on your inspection report get a good lawyer because you are jeopardizing your business. This is an engineering evaluation and outside scope of 25. The appropriate way to handle is as an observation outside of NFPA-25 inspection with an appropriate disclaimer. We have appropriate language recommendations for our insured.
Top Myers RelMark Group 961 Pottstown Pike Chester Springs, PA 19425 610-321-2415 X-219 Cell 610-952-0965 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 1:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates installed Right but I think we all agree 25' spacing is a critical deficiency but NFPA 25 doesn't tell us to look at spacing right? So then we'd do as Ron suggests, OK the inspection and under separate cover tell the owner there is a suspected problem that should be evaluated. It does tell us to look for things hanging off the heads so that gets included in the inspection. Bottom line doing inspections IMHO is a high risk venture not really worth the current market rates. You really can't do it right in this situation. Chris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates installed If we are aware that this is a bad practice, and that it will impede or possibly prevent a sprinkler from operating when exposed to a fire in the immediate vicinity of its location, and do not report it as a deficiency, then "we" are gonna get our asses sued off. A critical deficiency is one that "can have an effect o the performance of the fire protection system." 4.1.4.1 states, "The property owner or designated representative shall correct or repair deficiencies or impairments that are found during the inspection ..." To this comment and Dr. Shane's (welcome to the Viper's Pit, BTW) I would say that this is NOT a theoretical and the question was posed by someone who IS trained and understood in the first place that this was an issue. Don't take my word for it, ask your lawyer. Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates installed I'd flag it under NFPA 25 '10 - 5.2.1. Plenty in there like foreign materials or in the wrong orientation (because the plate implies it's too far down from the actual ceiling and should be upright based on the BL location, OK, maybe that's weak). You have no idea if it was AHJ approved condition before you got there. If you do as Ron suggested I'd use 5.2.1 as you did a deficient inspection as that section tells you exactly what to look for at the sprinkler, there is foreign material hanging from part of the sprinkler. Don't get me wrong I see where Ron is going for other things that are not mentioned like suspected small pipe size, incorrect density and incorrect spacing. Not sure I agree with Steve's using of the critical definition generically as a trump card for everything. First, some other section must identify what you are looking for then you'd use the definitions to establish an impairment, critical or non-critical deficiency? Is this a deficiency? Yes under 5.2.1. Is it an impairment, no. Is it a deficiency? Yes but I don't know which level as I don't have details. Short room you are probably in the jet and it won't make a difference. Tall space you may be in the plume and might make a bigger difference. In the end I'd never put my name on it as OK. What did you mean they were accepted? Just because an ahj agreed doesn't mean they were ever acceptable by the code. And many moons ago I'm sure there were plenty of AHJ that said no. I seem to only have come across in places that have limited oversight. I've seen them on system's installed in the last 5 years. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates installed Gregg, I'd make one of those "not part of the inspection" comments, but an area of potential concerne and do the "recommendation of an engineer's review." On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Gregg Key <[email protected]> wrote: > Forum, if you were inspecting a building and found some pendant > sprinklers with the "heat collectors" installed, would you write it up > as a deficiency and why? > > Many moons ago they were accepted but later research proved they did > not work. > > C.Gregg Key, SET > Key Fire Protection Services,Inc > Project Manager > (O) 706-790-3473 > (C) 706-220-8821 > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. 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