No one has suggested ignoring it. My point is you can report a deficiency without stepping into the poop of making engineering calls. And you can grab the owner by the shoulders and shake the crap out of him while screaming this si a really BIG problem. And you can write it up in red magic marker. Just do it on a separate form that says the comments are beyond the scope of the inspection per 25, that you really, really suggest someone looks into it, or that it be corrected (design review) as soon as possible, and that by bringing it up as a POTENTIAL problem you've done due diligence within the industry standards of a technician trained in NFPA 25 inspections. There's a reason I'm not allowed to give an aspirin to a student, although I'm required to be certified in CPR. Good samaritan laws notwithstanding you drop around me you're on your own. I'm no doctor.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]>wrote: > If we are aware that this is a bad practice, and that it will impede or > possibly prevent a sprinkler from operating when exposed to a fire in the > immediate vicinity of its location, and do not report it as a deficiency, > then "we" are gonna get our asses sued off. > > A critical deficiency is one that "can have an effect o the performance of > the fire protection system." 4.1.4.1 states, "The property owner or > designated representative shall correct or repair deficiencies or > impairments that are found during the inspection ..." To this comment and > Dr. Shane's (welcome to the Viper's Pit, BTW) I would say that this is NOT > a theoretical and the question was posed by someone who IS trained and > understood in the first place that this was an issue. Don't take my word > for it, ask your lawyer. > > Steve Leyton > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:56 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates > installed > > I'd flag it under NFPA 25 '10 - 5.2.1. Plenty in there like foreign > materials or in the wrong orientation (because the plate implies it's too > far down from the actual ceiling and should be upright based on the BL > location, OK, maybe that's weak). You have no idea if it was AHJ approved > condition before you got there. If you do as Ron suggested I'd use 5.2.1 > as you did a deficient inspection as that section tells you exactly what to > look for at the sprinkler, there is foreign material hanging from part of > the sprinkler. Don't get me wrong I see where Ron is going for other > things that are not mentioned like suspected small pipe size, incorrect > density and incorrect spacing. > > Not sure I agree with Steve's using of the critical definition generically > as a trump card for everything. First, some other section must identify > what you are looking for then you'd use the definitions to establish an > impairment, critical or non-critical deficiency? Is this a deficiency? > Yes under 5.2.1. Is it an impairment, no. Is it a deficiency? Yes but I > don't know which level as I don't have details. Short room you are probably > in the jet and it won't make a difference. Tall space you may be in the > plume and might make a bigger difference. In the end I'd never put my name > on it as OK. > > What did you mean they were accepted? Just because an ahj agreed doesn't > mean they were ever acceptable by the code. And many moons ago I'm sure > there were plenty of AHJ that said no. I seem to only have come across in > places that have limited oversight. I've seen them on system's installed > in the last 5 years. > > Chris Cahill, PE* > Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & > McDonnell > 8201 Norman Center Drive > Bloomington, MN 55437 > Phone: 952.656.3652 > Fax: 952.229.2923 > [email protected] > www.burnsmcd.com > > Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered > in: MN > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:26 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates > installed > > Gregg, > > I'd make one of those "not part of the inspection" comments, but an area > of potential concerne and do the "recommendation of an engineer's review." > > > On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Gregg Key <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Forum, if you were inspecting a building and found some pendant > > sprinklers with the "heat collectors" installed, would you write it up > > as a deficiency and why? > > > > Many moons ago they were accepted but later research proved they did > > not work. > > > > C.Gregg Key, SET > > Key Fire Protection Services,Inc > > Project Manager > > (O) 706-790-3473 > > (C) 706-220-8821 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120802/ac39cc84/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120802/f6bcc559/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
