I think you missed the points.
1. Code = Law. it is what he legislative produces as rules and in the case
of the built environment the Building Code. In the State of Washington:
Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 19.27
19.27.010
This chapter shall be known as the State Building Code Act.
RCW 19.27.031
Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, there shall be in effect in
all counties and cities the state building code which shall consist of the
following codes which are hereby adopted by reference:
(1)(a) The International Building Code, published by the International
Code Council[,] Inc.;
(b) The International Residential Code, published by the International
Code Council, Inc.;
(2) The International Mechanical Code, published by the International
Code Council[,] Inc., except that the standards for liquified petroleum gas
installations shall be NFPA 58 (Storage and Handling of Liquified Petroleum
Gases) and ANSI Z223.1/NFPA 54 (National Fuel Gas Code);
(3) The International Fire Code, published by the International Code
Council[,] Inc., including those standards of the National Fire Protection
Association specifically referenced in the International Fire Code:
PROVIDED, That, notwithstanding any wording in this code, participants in
religious ceremonies shall not be precluded from carrying hand-held candles;
(4) Except as provided in RCW
19.27.170<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=19.27.170>,
the Uniform Plumbing Code and Uniform Plumbing Code Standards, published by
the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials:
PROVIDED, That any provisions of such code affecting sewers or fuel gas
piping are not adopted; and
(5) The rules adopted by the council establishing standards for making
buildings and facilities accessible to and usable by the physically
disabled or elderly persons as provided in RCW
70.92.100<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=70.92.100>
through70.92.160 <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=70.92.160>.
Note number two amends portions of the mechanical code by replacing certain
sections with NFPA and ANSI documents. Without modification the IBC (now a
section within RCW 19.27) has been adopted as the part of the State
Building Code and is not in and of itself the building code. As I said
earlier, sprinkler protection is addressed within chapter 9 of the IBC as
are alarms, standpipes, etc. This chapter says when and where sprinklers
are needed and references various NFPA standards as how to do the
installation. The fact that a referenced document is entitled standard does
not make it an instrument of a lesser god once it has been established as a
part of the overall building code. It carries the same weight as any other
document included in the State Building Code.
I have no clue as to what you mean by "Code=Words, Standard=Numbers." Both
are full of both because it takes both to describe the "built environment."
2. The imperial number system is a quaint way to measure things that is a
cumbersome nuisance for getting any real work done. It's a museum piece
that the rest of the industrialized world abandoned decades, if not longer
ago, as well as all sciences and many manufacturing processes in America.
That we still cling to it in the "built environment" baffles me. Now let me
think, where are my whitworth wrenches?
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:45 PM, <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com> wrote:
> not messing with you Ron-- i totally do not understand how words can
> better describe the built environment better than numbers, i.e.,
> Code=Words, Standard=Numbers. i am terrible with numbers, as you know, and
> have warned me about (i was an English major when i dropped out of
> college), but i love the physical concepts of sprinklers, since they entail
> the sum total of everything know about phycics until now, including quantum
> mechanics. i have only had one broken bone, and that was my nose, so, no, i
> am not messing with you sir.
>
> Quoting Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com>:
>
> Brad,
>>
>> I hesitate to get you going but... and I've said this a lot.... The IBC,
>> NFPA 5000, Dr. Seuss' Building Code, etc. are models presented to the
>> public as a method of regulating buildings that can be adopted, usually by
>> reference (cheap) or by publication (expensive), written by private code
>> model providers/companies looking to sell books. Jurisdictional entities
>> then choose a model (pretty much universally the IBC, much to the chagrin
>> of Dr. Seuss) to adopt as law. They have the opportunity to amend it
>> before
>> adoption by adding, deleting or changing passages. Upon adoption the IBC
>> ceases to be the official title of that law/code, usually becoming the
>> Revised Code of (enter name of entity here) # whatever. Once adopted any
>> document that is referenced as being a part of that code are code, no
>> matter what it may have been entitled before the adoption, such as
>> Standard
>> for the....). The big difference, as I see it between a model code,
>> standard, guideline, etc. is a model code has enabling language whereas a
>> standard does not and so needs to be referenced. A guideline won't be
>> referenced but may be mentioned as a recommended practice. Other
>> referenced
>> publications can be documents originating from ASCE,such as number 7,
>> ASTM,
>> etc. If you look at IBC Chapter 9, you will find (and I don't have the
>> numbers in my head) 904.xx referencing NFPA 13 (as amended) as the part
>> the
>> code governing the installation of sprinklers in commercial buildings, and
>> 904.xy and 904.xz referencing 13R & 13D for installation in multi-family
>> and SFD respectively. Once adopted as part of a law there is no
>> distinction
>> regarding whether something is a code or not. When documents adopted as
>> code disagree, as sometimes occurs wit Federal work where the IBC/IFC and
>> NFPA 101 are both adopted then the more restrictive typically applies.
>>
>> As for the metric system let's use the basic unit of measurement, the
>> meter, mas opposed to the imperial unit of the foot. Go smaller and 100
>> centimeters equals the meter while 1000 meters equal the kilometer, all
>> multiples of ten. Let's look at the foot. Twelve inches, broken down into
>> 1/4s. 1/8s, 1/16ths, etc. Going the other way it's 5280 feet that make a
>> mile, but not a nautical mile. Then there are yards, chains, furlongs to
>> add spice. Weight? 1000 grams equals a kilogram, but 16 ounces equals a
>> pound. Volume is great. A thousand milliliters equals a liter, but
>> imperial
>> volumes: 2 cups = 1 pint. 2 pints = 1 quart but 4 quarts = 1 gallon. I
>> forget how many gallons in a bushel, bushels in peck. Temperature is a
>> favorite. Both use the state change thresholds of water as markers. So
>> metric equals 0 degrees for solid/water phase and 100 for water/gas phase,
>> but lets use 32 and 212 'causer hat makes more sense. Now I hope you, the
>> number guy, was just messing with me on this.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 6:29 PM, <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't get this, Rons. Are you talking about what NFPA 5000 was supposed
>>> to become 30 years ago? That was also the deadline for converting to
>>> metric. But since the American West was not won 25.4 millimeters by 25.4
>>> millimeters, but inch by inch, and most systems are installed on Earth,
>>> we
>>> can keep things like we like them. I need to ponder the Code vs Standard
>>> fued, and will do so for the remainder of the evening.
>>>
>>> Quoting Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Yeah Ron. When will that happen? Any day like any day we'll adopt the
>>>
>>>> metric system? I think the next time an AHJ tells me the state code
>>>> adopted
>>>> version of the IBC is the code, and the referenced version of 13 in that
>>>> code is just a standard I'm going to revert to a younger version of me
>>>> and
>>>> there will be a set of bloody knuckles and a bloody nose. You can decide
>>>> who's sporting what.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Brad Casterline
>>>> <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com>****wrote:
>>>>
>>>> fill it (nearly) full of non-comb insulation and tell everyone to have
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> nice day :) (that still works, right? the insulation i mean)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rfletc...@aerofire.com [mailto:rfletc...@aerofire.com****]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:51 PM
>>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org<sprinklerforum@**
>>>>> firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space
>>>>>
>>>>> It's another case of Architects designing buildings that don't comply
>>>>> with
>>>>> NFPA #13s' construction requirements. When will they learn that NFPA 13
>>>>> is
>>>>> building code as well as a sprinkler system installation standard?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron Fletcher
>>>>> Aero Phoenix
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
>>>>> sprinklerforum-bounces@**fires**prinkler.org<http://firesprinkler.org>
>>>>> <sprinklerforum-**boun...@firesprinkler.org<sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org>
>>>>> >
>>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-**bounc**e...@firesprinkler.org<boun...@firesprinkler.org>
>>>>> <sprinkler**forum-bounces@firesprinkler.**org<sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org>
>>>>> >]
>>>>> On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:35 AM
>>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org<sprinklerforum@**
>>>>> firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>>> Subject: Combustible Concealed Space
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a combustible concealed space above the main floor of a two
>>>>> storey
>>>>> building that is required to be sprinklered. This space is 16" deep and
>>>>> consists of open web trusses spaced 16" on-centre. The webs are made of
>>>>> 2x4's, causing considerable obstructions. This space qualifies for the
>>>>> use
>>>>> of heads listed for this use.
>>>>>
>>>>> My questions/dilemmas are as following:
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) There is no feasible possibility to avoid obstructions. Any
>>>>> comments?
>>>>> (2) As far as I know, the CC heads are only made by TYCO and they are
>>>>> not
>>>>> ULC listed. I'm in a Canadian jurisdiction. So can I say there is no
>>>>> listed
>>>>> head (as the building code validates only ULC listings) and use
>>>>> standard
>>>>> heads?
>>>>> (3) If I use CC heads, can I use exposed blazemaster piping (subject to
>>>>> the
>>>>> restrictions of course)? The problem is exposed blazemaster piping is
>>>>> allowed only in its UL listing and not in ULC. So just going around in
>>>>> circles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**
>>>>> org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.****org/mailman/listinfo/****
>>>>> sprinklerforum<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**mailman/listinfo/
>>>>> **sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**
>>>>> org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.****org/mailman/listinfo/****
>>>>> sprinklerforum<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**mailman/listinfo/
>>>>> **sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**
>>>>> org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.****org/mailman/listinfo/****
>>>>> sprinklerforum<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**mailman/listinfo/
>>>>> **sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ron Greenman
>>>> Instructor
>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology
>>>> Bates Technical College
>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave.
>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405
>>>>
>>>> rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/****fireprotection/<http://www.bates.ctc.edu/**fireprotection/>
>>>> <http://www.**bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/<http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> 253.680.7346
>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell)
>>>>
>>>> Member:
>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
>>>>
>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
>>>> Bacon,
>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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>>>> **attachment.html<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**
>>>> mailman/private/**sprinklerforum/attachments/**
>>>> 20121218/c7c783e2/attachment.**html<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20121218/c7c783e2/attachment.html>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**
>>>> org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>>
>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.****org/mailman/listinfo/****
>>>> sprinklerforum<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**mailman/listinfo/*
>>>> *sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.****org
>>> <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org<Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>
>>> >
>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.****org/mailman/listinfo/****
>>> sprinklerforum<http://**fireball.firesprinkler.org/**mailman/listinfo/**
>>> sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ron Greenman
>> Instructor
>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology
>> Bates Technical College
>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave.
>> Tacoma, WA 98405
>>
>> rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu
>>
>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/**fireprotection/<http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/>
>>
>> 253.680.7346
>> 253.576.9700 (cell)
>>
>> Member:
>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
>>
>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
>> Bacon,
>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>
>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org>
> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum>
>
--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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