If you believe in the Annex, you don't have to do a "main drain" test through the main drain, as NFPA 25:A13.2.5 indicates you can use the pump suction gauge to take the pressure reading. After all, the only data you need to record in a main drain test is the pressure.
NFPA 13, 2013 edition 25.2.3.4 Main Drain Valves. 25.2.3.4.2* The static and residual pressures shall be recorded on the contractor’s material and test certificate (see Figure 25.1). You raise one good exception. When there is a flowmeter, 2 out of every 3 years, you are not required to flow water. So I can see the usefulness of a strategically located main drain valve near the fire pump, but only with the presence of a flowmeter. But, requiring a main drain test through an extra main drain valve, when an annual flow test of the fire pump is being performed, is an unnecessary added cost to the owner. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Matsuda, Richard [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Pump Room Main Drain This subject has been a pet-peeve of mine for the past 35 years. I agree with y'all that the main drain which is normally located on the system (high pressure) side of the fire pump can be used to conduct the drain test...either with the pump on or the pump off. With the pump on, the drain test will drop pressure and the fire pump will come on...so you are testing the incoming water supply with the fire pump boost. With the pump off, the drain test will also drop pressure, but the fire pump will not come on...so you are testing the incoming water supply through the bypass without the fire pump boosting the pressure. However, you have to drop the pressure below the incoming static pressure to determine if there are any obstruction or problems with the incoming supply piping. In a high-rise building, you must drain the standpipe system to do this...or you have to shut-off the standpipes so only the high pressure at the pump is drained off. With the main drain test location on the suction side of the fire pump, you can test the incoming water supply without the pump starting. This "main drain test" is not really a "drain" and maybe it should be renamed "water supply test connection." In addition, older editions of NFPA-20 and 25 allowed annual fire pump tests using the recirculating flow meter where no water was discharged. This allowed testing of the fire pump without actually using or testing any of the incoming water supply. You could get a satisfactory "flow test" of the pump when in fact the water supply at the street was shut-off. The newer editions require that a "flow test" of the pump be conducted every third year by actually discharging water...and therefore, doing a test of the incoming water supply. In order to allow annual testing (not every third year) of the water supply without doing a flow test of the fire pump or the backflow preventer, I stand by my interpretation and will require a "water supply test connection" on the suction supply of all fire pumps to allow testing the incoming water supply without turning the pump on/off and without having to drain the high pressure off the downstream systems. rick matsuda, city of dallas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Glen Buelow, Inc. Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Fire Pump Room Main Drain Tom, leave it whre it is at for drain porposes. Youe mentioned that the pump has a bypass. Turn the pump off for the main drain test and test through the bypass. Glen buelow On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Charles Thurston <[email protected]>wrote: > "Hello All, > > Would not the test point to test the forward flow of the backflow > preventer at system demand do the same thing as the main drain before > the pump? > > Thursday, December 12, 2013, 4:07:24 PM, you wrote: > > > You would want a main drain where it is installed so the system can > > be drained for maintenance, hence the word drain. Do you need > > another drain on the suction side of a pump for a test to verify > > condition? There is some merit to that idea. > > > Todd G Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, CT > > www.fpdc.com > > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > > >> On Dec 12, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Tom Duross" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I'm looking for opinions on this. > > >> A new building I just took over ITM on has a fire pump feeding > combination > >> standpipes, fully sprinklered high-rise circa 1974. > >> Existing 2" main drain is toast, handle broken, stem all chewed up > >> from wrenching. > >> I proposed we change it, use a 300# ball valve, galvy pipe; do it right. > >> BUT, it's on the system riser off the pump discharge and I say > >> wrong location. > >> Even the standard still says do a main drain test when you have a > >> fire > pump > >> (imho silly), so I do. > >> A main drain test is to verify supply condition. I say with it > >> where > it is, > >> we either have to drop the building to street pressure OR do a main > drain > >> with the pump running. In a case like this I always do the latter > >> but > I see > >> others dropping the building and I think it's unnecessary and an > impairment. > >> The problem I have with doing 150-200# main drain tests is they do > >> dump > a > >> ton of water, even with a fire hose off the 2" el and a hose monster. > >> I feel it's overkill and unnecessary on top of a waste of time but > whatever. > >> My issue (finally) is where to properly place a main drain when you > have a > >> pump. I say on the street side bypass supply, just flow supply > pressure and > >> be done with it. Facilities guy says others dumped building and > >> just do that. > >> Sprinklers are tested with the pump running, last few companies > >> shut it > off > >> and went on jockey, that's why they're gone. > >> Looking for opinions and even second opinions (ok you're ugly too). > >> What's the proper location? > > >> TD > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > > -- > Best regards, > Charles mailto:[email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -- *Glen Buelow* *Glen W. Buelow, Inc.Fire Protection Design and ConsultingCleveland 330.220.7201 *●* Akron 330.665.4439* _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
