I got the number directly from the NFPA web site, however on further examination I notice that is says withdrawn on the NFPA 57 page. I had skipped over NFPA 55 because it didn't appear to specifically address Natural Gas. I'm having computer issues in that my new computers security won't let me run JavaScript, so until IT fixes that I can't read NFPA 55.
Richard Mote ET Design Manager Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John F Hoffman Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 1:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Compressed Natural Gas vs. Liquefied Natural Gas I believe the original question was about sprinklers for a compressed NG cylinder storage room. I replied it is in NFPA 55 and it requires EH1. There is no NFPA 57, at least in the current set of NFPA codes and standards. 2002 was the last edition for it. John Hoffman, PE Facility Engineering Services KCP, LLC -- Burns & McDonnell Engineering National Nuclear Security Administration's KC Plant Operated by Honeywell FM&T, LLC office: 816-488-7213 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Compressed Natural Gas vs. Liquefied Natural Gas For the sprinkler design they though are probably the same thing. It's been a few years now but FM had a good write up in one of their standards probably about LNG. The basics as I recall is the point of the water (sprinklers) was to keep other cylinders from failing due to flame impingement. This takes surprisingly little water. It was OH or EH1. I see no reason why the stuff inside makes a difference to keeping the cylinder wet thus cool thus it doesn't fail. I'm talking macro scale. I'm sure there is some difference at significantly elevated temperatures where the internal pressure does make a difference. But at a few hundred deg F you should not get failure of LNG, CNG or any other product in a steel container. And you want to be careful with gas. Too much water can make things worse. If you accidentally put out the fire but don't control the leak you now basically have a bomb. Gas cloud builds until it finds an ignition source and goes boom in the technical vernacular. Chris Cahill, PE* Associate Fire Protection Engineer Burns & McDonnell Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com *Registered in: MN Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 11:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Compressed Natural Gas vs. Liquefied Natural Gas By coincidence, I am currently presenting a training program for fire inspectors and plans reviewers from the State of Qatar. I posed this question to them (Qatar is the world's 3rd largest producer of natural gas behind USA and Russia) and they affirmed that standards (a mix of NFPA with a little British) don't contain a reference to "compressed" natural gas, only LNG. But current canister technology allows compression up to 3600psi, and there is a wide range of working pressures and canister sizes for different applications. LNG and CNG are different - LNG is low pressure/higher volume ... not sure what the code implications are but they are different. Sorry that's not much help, but they're definitely not the same thing. Steve L. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Mote Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Compressed Natural Gas vs. Liquefied Natural Gas We are bidding a job that has one room (23' x 38') that is completed separated from the rest of the building by an 8" CMU wall, the only access is from the exterior of the building. This room is labeled CNG. The builder has identified that they will be storing compressed natural gas in cylinders. The only reference I can find to natural gas in NFPA publications is NFPA 57 for Liquefied Natural Gas. Do I use NFPA 57 for CNG or is there somewhere else I should be looking? Richard Mote ET Design Manager Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407 Middelburg, PA 17842 P- 877-324-ROWE F- 570-937-6335 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> www.rowesprinkler.com<http://www.rowesprinkler.com> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
