Bingo! The influence of the manufactures is overwhelming on the TC however in their defense anything that is subjective . . . like how much paint is to much paint, needs to be reduced to any amount of paint on a sprinkler requires replacement because there are to many variables. I think that same logic applies to this topic.
Can one remove a drop; carefully get it in a 300 machines jaw, make a cut and thread, carefully remove it from the machine and re-install the drop. Sure it can be done. But it is just as likely that the drop with the head gets mishandled and damaged. There are no winners there. I don't read the standard as preventing the removal of a drop with the head made in. But not doing it might just be "Best Practice". Mike Cabral Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:49 PM, <rfletc...@aerofire.com> <rfletc...@aerofire.com> > wrote: > > Like shipping, unpacking and installation only applies the proper and > necessary stress for the sprinkler to operate as intended. Or maybe the > engineering is so precise that the sprinkler can only stand the rigors of > being threaded into a fitting once and then it's useless. Or maybe there are > sprinkler manufacturers reps on the 13 committee that know how fragile and > un-robust sprinklers are? Why would you build something could only be > threaded in once? I'm glad they don't manufacture pipe or fittings. > > Ron fletcher Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:43 PM, John Denhardt <jdenha...@stricklandfire.com> >> wrote: >> >> Mark - well said. I totally agree. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:29 PM, "Mark A. Sornsin, P.E." <masorn...@kfi-eng.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> My two cents is that it is not only the potential stress to the sprinkler >>> from removal/replacement, but the potential for damage during handling. >>> This is especially true for QR sprinklers. >>> >>> From the EOR perspective, I have them replaced with new regardless of if it >>> could be kept in a drop. >>> >>> I understand there may be differing perspectives when you are in a >>> competitive bid that doesn't address the issue, or you have an owner >>> griping about every dollar spent. >>> >>> Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection >>> Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | >>> http://www.kfiengineers.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of >>> accentf...@aol.com >>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 4:05 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: Re: Relocate sprinklers with drops RETORT >>> >>> Good afternoon, All: >>> >>> I thought a previous discussion revealed that currently IF the sprinkler >>> stays in the RC, weld-o-let, fitting, etc., then it can be reinstalled if >>> the sprinkler has not actually been removed from the original >>> fitting/outlet. >>> I believe the concern was the amount of 'stress' applied to the sprinkler >>> when trying to remove it - and possible damage resulting from the 'torque'. >>> Previously, everyone seemed to be on board with this approach. >>> >>> Cordially- >>> >>> Jerry >>> _accentfire@aol.com_ (mailto:accentf...@aol.com) >>> >>> *Jerry D. Watts, SFPE >>> President & Co-Founder >>> ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd.** >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico USA >>> (800) 503.1961 nationwide >>> >>> *New Mexico Journeyman Sprinklerfitter Lic. #08228 >>> >>> **Licensed Fire Protection Engineers - Architects/Inspectors/Fire >>> Investigators: AZ CA CO NM NV NY TX UT KS MD MS >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 2/6/2015 2:04:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>> pe...@waynefire.com writes: >>> >>> Based on the 2nd draft, this is what the 2016 language will say unless it >>> is Successfully NITMAM ed >>> >>> 6.2.1.1* >>> When a sprinkler is removed from a fitting or welded outlet, it shall not >>> be reinstalled except as permitted by 6.2.1.1.1. >>> 6.2.1.1.1 >>> Dry sprinklers shall be permitted to be reinstalled when removed in >>> accordance with the manufacturer's installation and maintenance >>> instructions. >>> >>> A.6.2.1.1 >>> Sprinklers should be permitted to be reinstalled when the sprinkler being >>> removed from the system remains attached to the original fitting or welded >>> outlet, provided care has been taken to ensure the sprinkler has not been >>> damaged. Flexible hose connections are considered a fitting. >>> In new installations, where sprinklers are installed on pendent drop >>> nipples or sidewall sprinklers prior to final cut-back, protective caps >>> and/or straps should remain in place until after the drop nipple has been >>> cut to fit to the final ceiling elevation. >>> >>> This is my opinion only and does not constitute the official opinion of >>> the NFPA. >>> >>> Peter Schwab >>> VP of Purchasing & Engineering Technologies >>> >>> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. >>> 222 Capitol Court >>> Ocoee, Fl 34761 >>> >>> Mobile: (407) 468-8248 >>> Direct: (407) 877-5570 >>> Fax: (407) 656-8026 >>> >>> www.waynefire.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of >>> michael G >>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:56 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> I would have to agree with Richard, He is not pulling the head out of the >>> piping, the Boss of the sprinkler is taking no extra strain and there is >>> no extra stress added on the sprinkler head its self. Only the piping is >>> being removed, cut threaded and reinstalled. We basically do this when we >>> install a system.... >>> >>> We run the branch line, install a 0-2 and elbow, the drop and a head with >>> the support ring installed already, so that when we do our initial testing >>> for leaks, the drops are tested all the way to the sprinkler head. The >>> reason for this is, 1) to eliminate the number of potential leaks at the >>> end of the job while conducting the final pressure test. 2) if there is a >>> bad head or something wrong, i.e. cracked 1 x 1/2" RC, it is easier to >>> change it out then, instead of over finished floor and product. >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:44 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> 6.2.1.1 (2013) When a sprinkler has been removed for any reason, it shall >>> not be reinstalled. >>> >>> >>> Duane Johnson >>> Strickland Fire Protection >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>> On Behalf Of Richard Carr >>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:38 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> If he is not pulling the head how is it a violation of NFPA? >>> >>> Richard Carr, SET >>> Branch Manager >>> Cox Fire Protection, Inc >>> 6555 Grace Lane. >>> Jacksonville, Fl. 32205 >>> rc...@coxfire.com >>> 904-781-8227 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:29 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> The problem is, you won't find this in the standard unless you print out >>> the ROC... >>> >>> >>> Duane Johnson >>> Strickland Fire Protection >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:28 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> Not permitted. There was a proposal submitted on the last cycle to allow >>> this, but it was rejected. >>> >>> >>> Duane Johnson >>> Strickland Fire Protection >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>> On Behalf Of Art Tiroly >>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:29 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>> >>> I am having an argument with a contractor that is removing heads and drops >>> then moving them to a new position. Sprinklers are QR less than 5 years >>> old. >>> He is not removing the head from the drop or the 1x1/2 RC. He says he is >>> not reusing sprinklers just relocating them with the drop nipple. He says >>> this is standard practice. >>> Does this violate 6.2.1.1? Do not reuse sprinklers removed from the system. >>> >>> >>> Art Tiroly >>> ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly >>> 24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143 >>> 216-621-8899 >>> 216-570-7030 cell >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. >>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. >>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
