I'm on your side of the argument Chris. And in addition, to the comments about proper or more specifically IMPROPER handling of the sprinkler head, isn't it likely that the same fitter we trusted to install the new sprinkler would exercise the same care in handling the removal and replacement? If the sprinkler head isn't robust enough to tolerate removal and replacement, certainly removing the drop would resolve the issue.
Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 7, 2015, at 9:53 AM, "Cahill, Christopher" <ccah...@burnsmcd.com> > wrote: > > Agree - here's my question where's the data or experience this is a problem? > For 15 years I was either the FPE for St. Paul or a sprinkler contractor. In > St. Paul I personally went to about 90% of the sprinkler activations and as a > contractor we were small enough I knew of everything we did. Not once did I > have any reason to believe a false discharge was caused by a repositioned > head whether removed from it's fitting or not. I have to believe there were > 10's of thousands of heads moved in this period. > > Chris Cahill, PE* > Associate Fire Protection Engineer > Burns & McDonnell > Phone: 952.656.3652 > Fax: 952.229.2923 > ccah...@burnsmcd.com > www.burnsmcd.com > *Registered in: MN > > > Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 8:59 PM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Relocate sprinklers with drops RETORT > > It sure seems like a waste of resources to me. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:49 PM, <rfletc...@aerofire.com> >> <rfletc...@aerofire.com> wrote: >> >> Like shipping, unpacking and installation only applies the proper and >> necessary stress for the sprinkler to operate as intended. Or maybe the >> engineering is so precise that the sprinkler can only stand the rigors of >> being threaded into a fitting once and then it's useless. Or maybe there are >> sprinkler manufacturers reps on the 13 committee that know how fragile and >> un-robust sprinklers are? Why would you build something could only be >> threaded in once? I'm glad they don't manufacture pipe or fittings. >> >> Ron fletcher Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:43 PM, John Denhardt <jdenha...@stricklandfire.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Mark - well said. I totally agree. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:29 PM, "Mark A. Sornsin, P.E." >>>> <masorn...@kfi-eng.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> My two cents is that it is not only the potential stress to the sprinkler >>>> from removal/replacement, but the potential for damage during handling. >>>> This is especially true for QR sprinklers. >>>> >>>> From the EOR perspective, I have them replaced with new regardless of if >>>> it could be kept in a drop. >>>> >>>> I understand there may be differing perspectives when you are in a >>>> competitive bid that doesn't address the issue, or you have an owner >>>> griping about every dollar spent. >>>> >>>> Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection >>>> Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | >>>> http://www.kfiengineers.com >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of >>>> accentf...@aol.com >>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 4:05 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: Re: Relocate sprinklers with drops RETORT >>>> >>>> Good afternoon, All: >>>> >>>> I thought a previous discussion revealed that currently IF the sprinkler >>>> stays in the RC, weld-o-let, fitting, etc., then it can be reinstalled if >>>> the sprinkler has not actually been removed from the original >>>> fitting/outlet. >>>> I believe the concern was the amount of 'stress' applied to the sprinkler >>>> when trying to remove it - and possible damage resulting from the >>>> 'torque'. >>>> Previously, everyone seemed to be on board with this approach. >>>> >>>> Cordially- >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> _accentfire@aol.com_ (mailto:accentf...@aol.com) >>>> >>>> *Jerry D. Watts, SFPE >>>> President & Co-Founder >>>> ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd.** Santa Fe, New Mexico USA >>>> (800) 503.1961 nationwide >>>> >>>> *New Mexico Journeyman Sprinklerfitter Lic. #08228 >>>> >>>> **Licensed Fire Protection Engineers - Architects/Inspectors/Fire >>>> Investigators: AZ CA CO NM NV NY TX UT KS MD MS >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 2/6/2015 2:04:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>>> pe...@waynefire.com writes: >>>> >>>> Based on the 2nd draft, this is what the 2016 language will say >>>> unless it is Successfully NITMAM ed >>>> >>>> 6.2.1.1* >>>> When a sprinkler is removed from a fitting or welded outlet, it shall not >>>> be reinstalled except as permitted by 6.2.1.1.1. >>>> 6.2.1.1.1 >>>> Dry sprinklers shall be permitted to be reinstalled when removed in >>>> accordance with the manufacturer's installation and maintenance >>>> instructions. >>>> >>>> A.6.2.1.1 >>>> Sprinklers should be permitted to be reinstalled when the sprinkler being >>>> removed from the system remains attached to the original fitting or welded >>>> outlet, provided care has been taken to ensure the sprinkler has not been >>>> damaged. Flexible hose connections are considered a fitting. >>>> In new installations, where sprinklers are installed on pendent drop >>>> nipples or sidewall sprinklers prior to final cut-back, protective caps >>>> and/or straps should remain in place until after the drop nipple has been >>>> cut to fit to the final ceiling elevation. >>>> >>>> This is my opinion only and does not constitute the official opinion of >>>> the NFPA. >>>> >>>> Peter Schwab >>>> VP of Purchasing & Engineering Technologies >>>> >>>> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. >>>> 222 Capitol Court >>>> Ocoee, Fl 34761 >>>> >>>> Mobile: (407) 468-8248 >>>> Direct: (407) 877-5570 >>>> Fax: (407) 656-8026 >>>> >>>> www.waynefire.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of >>>> michael G >>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:56 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> I would have to agree with Richard, He is not pulling the head out of >>>> the piping, the Boss of the sprinkler is taking no extra strain and there >>>> is no extra stress added on the sprinkler head its self. Only the piping >>>> is being removed, cut threaded and reinstalled. We basically do this >>>> when we install a system.... >>>> >>>> We run the branch line, install a 0-2 and elbow, the drop and a head with >>>> the support ring installed already, so that when we do our initial >>>> testing for leaks, the drops are tested all the way to the sprinkler >>>> head. The reason for this is, 1) to eliminate the number of potential >>>> leaks at the end of the job while conducting the final pressure test. 2) >>>> if there is a bad head or something wrong, i.e. cracked 1 x 1/2" RC, it >>>> is easier to change it out then, instead of over finished floor and >>>> product. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:44 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> 6.2.1.1 (2013) When a sprinkler has been removed for any reason, it shall >>>> not be reinstalled. >>>> >>>> >>>> Duane Johnson >>>> Strickland Fire Protection >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Richard Carr >>>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:38 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> If he is not pulling the head how is it a violation of NFPA? >>>> >>>> Richard Carr, SET >>>> Branch Manager >>>> Cox Fire Protection, Inc >>>> 6555 Grace Lane. >>>> Jacksonville, Fl. 32205 >>>> rc...@coxfire.com >>>> 904-781-8227 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:29 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> The problem is, you won't find this in the standard unless you >>>> print out the ROC... >>>> >>>> >>>> Duane Johnson >>>> Strickland Fire Protection >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Duane Johnson >>>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:28 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> Not permitted. There was a proposal submitted on the last cycle to >>>> allow this, but it was rejected. >>>> >>>> >>>> Duane Johnson >>>> Strickland Fire Protection >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Art Tiroly >>>> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 3:29 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Relocate sprinklers with drops >>>> >>>> I am having an argument with a contractor that is removing heads >>>> and drops then moving them to a new position. Sprinklers are QR less >>>> than 5 years old. >>>> He is not removing the head from the drop or the 1x1/2 RC. He says >>>> he is not reusing sprinklers just relocating them with the drop >>>> nipple. He says this is standard practice. >>>> Does this violate 6.2.1.1? Do not reuse sprinklers removed from the >>>> system. >>>> >>>> >>>> Art Tiroly >>>> ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly >>>> 24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143 >>>> 216-621-8899 >>>> 216-570-7030 cell >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud >>>> service. >>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud >>>> service. >>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>>> kler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >>> ler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> er.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
