Yes, but I think Normans' references to the OSHA terminology is interesting and in this case applicable. In his reference: "another definition from OSHA" If by limited access you mean "limited or restricted means for entry or exit," the definition in the 1926 Subpart AA standard is "a condition that has a potential to impede an employee’s movement into or out of a confined space. Such conditions include, but are not limited to, trip hazards, poor illumination, slippery floors, including surfaces and ladders." And this is exactly what I believe is the intent of the words as used in NFPA 13.
-----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 12:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Concealed Space Access definition Did I lose track of this thread or weren't we talked about concealed spaces as defined by 13 regarding the need or not to install sprinklers? Hazardous concealed spaces would be a different animal altogether. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Norman Arendt <[email protected]> wrote: > Also for the type of work that installers do reference the following > document: OSHA3787 attics crl spaces.pdf available on the osha.gov > website. > > Norman Arendt, PhD, CFII, CMAS > Middleton Fire District Plan Reviewer and Investigator Board Member > ASSE/ASIS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Arendt" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:42:04 PM > Subject: Re: Concealed Space Access definition > > > nother definition from OSHA > > If by limited access you mean "limited or restricted means for entry > or exit," the definition in the 1926 Subpart AA standard is "a > condition that has a potential to impede an employee’s movement into > or out of a confined space. Such conditions include, but are not > limited to, trip hazards, poor illumination, slippery floors, including > surfaces and ladders. > > Norman Arendt, PhD, CFII, CMAS > Middleton Fire District Plan Reviewer and Investigator Board Member > ASSE/ASIS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Arendt" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:11:22 PM > Subject: Re: Concealed Space Access definition > > in confined space useage we know intuitively what it means but what is > the definition. > > Norman Arendt, PhD, CFII, CMAS > Middleton Fire District Plan Reviewer and Investigator Board Member > ASSE/ASIS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Arendt" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 1:55:58 PM > Subject: Re: Concealed Space Access definition > > from OSHA letter of a few years back > A space has limited or restricted means of entry or exit if an > entrant's ability to escape in an emergency would be hindered. The > dimensions of a door and its location are factors in determining > whether an entrant can easily escape; however, the presence of a door > does not in and of itself mean that the space is not a confined space. > For example, a space such as a bag house or crawl space that has a > door leading into it, but also has pipes, conduits, ducts, or > equipment or materials that an employee would be required to crawl > over or under or squeeze around in order to escape, has limited or > restricted means of exit. A piece of equipment with an access door, > such as a conveyor feed, a drying oven, or a paint spray enclosure, > will also be considered to have restricted means of entry or exit if an > employee has to crawl to gain access to his or her intended work location. > Similarly, an access door or portal which is too small to allow an > employee to walk upright and unimpeded th rough it will be considered > to restrict an employee's ability to escape. > > > > > Norman Arendt, PhD, CFII, CMAS > Middleton Fire District Plan Reviewer and Investigator Board Member > ASSE/ASIS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roland Huggins" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 1:41:13 PM > Subject: Re: Concealed Space Access definition > > That is a pretty good description. > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > Dallas, TX > http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > > > > > > > On Jun 19, 2015, at 11:32 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Would you say this description is correct? "Limited access" A > > space > which is not accessible by simply opening a door and walking into it. > It can be accessed if necessary, just not by the general public or > employees at their normal work station. > > > > Mark at Aero > > 602 820-7894 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
