As promised, here's the datasheet for the Hooker fitting we got directly from Victaulic... note the exact opposite wording from the one that Mike so generously shared. https://www.dropbox.com/s/h4yhc7a5v3vfvdi/1312_001.pdf?dl=0
We sent the 1988 install sheet to the fire marshal's office but haven't heard back from them yet. Benjamin Young On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:05 PM, rongreenman . <[email protected]> wrote: > I think you're right and I think you'll find a lot of that in the industry > where the stuff that was held close by a company seems to just disappear > like it never existed. > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ben Young <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > So the data sheet that Victaulic sent our PM is just as Lamar said, for > > heads, drops, gauges, etc. only. > > But, that sheet's dated 1980, where the install manual from Mike is > 1988... > > > > When i get a copy of the 1980 data sheet, I'll link it to you guys via > > dropbox. (PM keeps forgetting to send it to me) > > > > The Hooker fittings data seemingly all vanished into a black hole, > because > > you can barely find anything online, even with the proper information. > The > > only other sprinkler product I know of that's like that are Omega heads. > > Its probably just a coincidence but my gut says these fittings must have > > been a huge legal liability for the manufacturer. At least with the > Omegas > > you can still see the CPSC website info and news reports, but there are > no > > datasheets or other catalog cuts available online open to the public. > > > > > > Benjamin Young > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Mike Hairfield <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > That's not what it says on the Victaulic Data sheet, want a copy? > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:15:30 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: Hooklet tees > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > The "Hookers" were always intended for use installing sprinkler heads > > > only. > > > > As a short-cut, there were some contractors who took it a step > further > > > and > > > > used them as you have stated, incorrectly. > > > > > > > > Lamar Vaughn > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ben Young < > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > In deference to your 'side-arm' comment Mike, I'm going to give > this > > > to our > > > > > PM and call it a smoking gun! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for your help and providing the sheet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Young > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Mike Hairfield <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ben, > > > > > > Look at the Victaulic Sheet page 97 it states that they are UL > > > Listed for > > > > > > branch connections, arm-overs,side-arms ( they must mean guns > here) > > > > > sprigs, > > > > > > drop nipples, and direct sprinkler head connections.Suitable > hanger > > > > > support > > > > > > of branch outlet should be considered to prevent Style 922 > > rotation. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:44:15 -0400 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Hooklet tees > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The AHJ is stating that the installation instructions say that > > > they are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > to be used for branch line outlets. > > > > > > > I've always taken that to mean that you can't come off a main > and > > > feed > > > > > > > multiple heads with one hooker. > > > > > > > The AHJ's interpretation is that this means you cannot come off > > of > > > a > > > > > > branch > > > > > > > line with them... which makes no sense to anyone at my office. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, though, after reading the data sheet that Damien linked > to, > > > where > > > > > is > > > > > > > says that the strap tees are for heads, drops, or gauages, it > > > makes me > > > > > > > wonder if they don't have a valid point. > > > > > > > http://www.vikinggroupinc.com/usrelated/vgs/V-723.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We normally use Grinnell 40-5 strap tees, and they specifically > > > say it > > > > > > can > > > > > > > be used with full lengths of pipe... > > > > > > > I've never heard before that you can't (or shouldn't) use strap > > > tees > > > > > for > > > > > > > armovers. > > > > > > > http://www.tyco-fire.com/TD_TFP/TFP/TFP1720_05_2015.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just as a backstory, this is an existing 10 story building that > > > we're > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > basically TFO work for on a few floors. Another GC with > another > > > > > > sprinkler > > > > > > > contractor is doing another TFO on another floor in the > building, > > > and > > > > > all > > > > > > > four companies got put on email blast by the AHJ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are about done with our portion of the job, and the hooker > > > fittings > > > > > > were > > > > > > > basically used as WOLs for the shell spaces. Our installers > > won't > > > > > touch > > > > > > > them, though, and we put it new mechanical tees if we need to > > > reuse an > > > > > > > outlet (or so I'm told) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Young > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Mike Hairfield < > [email protected] > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are Victaulic #922 Hooker Tees. > > > > > > > > How does the AHJ know that they were not installed properly? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:43:36 -0400 > > > > > > > > > Subject: Hooklet tees > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any info on these? I know our field guys > > call > > > > > them > > > > > > > > hooker > > > > > > > > > tees, but searching for these things on google has been a > > > > > minefield. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing on Victaulic's website... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to be clear, I'm talking about the strap-style tee > with > > > the > > > > > > one-side > > > > > > > > > cast 'hook' that goes around to the back of the piping with > > the > > > > > > snap-off > > > > > > > > > lock bolt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've always kind of treated them like FIT fittings or > > > roustabouts: > > > > > > > > > interesting concept, poor execution, and don't touch them > if > > > > > they're > > > > > > > > > existing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have an AHJ telling us that we have to replace them all > > on a > > > > > > tenant > > > > > > > > > fit-out because they were not installed properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Young > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
