The wording has been (as long as I can remember) to not allow concentric
reducers on the suction side.  But the intent behind the wording is to
eliminate high spots where air can accumulate and enter the pump in larger
quantities.  When a concentric reducer is used as an increaser, that's a
non-issue.  So it likely doesn't meet the letter of the standard, but I
believe it meets the intent.  

Ed Kramer
Bamford Fire Sprinkler

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NFPA 20 around 1988

I have yet to get any pump test information, but I assume it has been tested
properly.

Thanks for the confirmation of the reducers.  I was pretty certain that you
couldn't use a concentric back in the day, but I didn't have the standard to
verify it.

What's funny is the pump is 8x6.  They ran a 6" underground and piping up to
the suction of the pump, then had to put an 8x6 flanged "increaser" to match
up with the pump.  You would think that some one would have had the idea
back then that this didn't seem quite right.

Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:[email protected]

http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

On 2/11/2016 3:12 PM, Scott Futrell wrote:
> I thought Brad would have the suction size answer!
>
> Suction size has been for some time based upon the pressure remaining
above 0 psi when flowing at 150 percent of the rated capacity.  So, 6" might
be possible, but you'd have to verify the supply.
>
> Agree completely, no concentric on suction side.
>
> Scott
>   
> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
> Cell: (612) 759-5556
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
> Brad Casterline
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:08 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: NFPA 20 around 1988
>
> No to concentric on suction side---
> Requires ECCENTRIC, top flat.
> (if this is vertical in-line, different ballgame) On Feb 11, 2016 3:58 PM,
"Travis Mack, SET" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Was it ever permitted for a 1000 GPM pump to be supplied by 6" piping?
>> Also, was it ever permitted to put a CONCENTRIC 8x6 reducer on the 
>> suction flange of a pump.
>>
>> We have an existing project where the owner was hoping to remove the 
>> pump and to supply from city water.  I informed them that the water 
>> pressures on site were not compatible.  They also have a pump that 
>> has been requiring a lot of maintenance.  As I looked at the as-built 
>> plans (yeah, miraculously they had them for a building built in 
>> 1988), it shows a 6" supply for the
>> 1000 gpm pump and the concentric reducer on the suction flange of the
pump.
>>
>> In the most recent editions of NFPA 20, a 1000 gpm pump needs an 8"
>> suction line.
>>
>> --
>> Travis Mack, SET
>> MFP Design, LLC
>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive
>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>> 480-505-9271
>> fax: 866-430-6107
>> email:[email protected]
>>
>> http://www.mfpdesign.com
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> l
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>>
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