I'm not sure about the anomaly guiding the design. We've had one 9/11 event and got TSA. We had one guy with a shoe bomb and everyone gets to take their shoes off. We have three thousand deaths a year fro fires, mostly in SFDs, and we're told sprinkling is too expensive. We have a quarter million os so smoking related deaths per year and subsidize the tobacco companies. How much do we subsidize the airlines to pay for TSA so w can feel safe in the safest mode of transportation, miles per person, we have?
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:37 AM, Kenneth Berman <[email protected]> wrote: > consider a remote manual pull station to give enough volume of trim piping > to allow for pressure drop , even if you only loose a few drops through the > check valve, because of pressure loss in the supply piping. Loss of > underground pressure resulted in a pressure drop, back through the priming > line, that set off an open head AFFF system in a building of ink tanks in > KY. The trim piping held such a small volume that a couple drops was enough > for the reliable deluge valve to trip, when the underground pressure was > returned. Reliable supplied us with a top of the line silicone spring > loaded plug check valve and it still lost a few pounds. A remote manual > pull at the tanks gave enough volume to maintain the pressure to keep the > valve set-up. This problem showed up because the maintenance man was > filling the underground lines utilizing the main electric pump to speed up > filling time. The priming line couldn't repressurize the priming chamber > fast enough to keep the valve "safe". > > On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 4:33 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> If you have smoke detection you have an electrical interface with the >> P.A. system, so the pull station could be electrical as well as you can by >> a P.A. trim for electrical actuation. >> >> Also it's common for the electrician to install fire alarm and detection >> components if there is not a specific fire alarm contractor. >> >> There's a lot of info missing but installing a manual pull at the riser >> is for service work as well, makes it real easy to test the valve tripping >> mechanisms to be sure everything works as it should from the mechanical >> side of things. >> >> We might also assume that the installer is working from a set of plans >> telling him where to install it, instead of him just arbitrarily putting it >> wherever he felt like it. >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl >> Fire Protection Group Lead/SME >> CH2M >> 200 Verdae Blvd. >> Greenville, SC 29607 >> Direct - 864.920.7540 >> Fax - 864.920.7129 >> CH2MHILL Extension 77540 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles >> Thurston >> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 5:24 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Pre action pull station >> >> Hello Todd, >> >> Better question is WHY is an electrician installing something that is not >> electrical? >> >> >> > > 2007 NFPA 13, 7.3.1.2 The automatic water control valve shall be >> > > provided with hydraulic, pneumatic, or mechanical manual means for >> > > operation that is independent of detection devices and of the >> > > sprinklers. >> >> Monday, May 9, 2016, 5:04:55 PM, you wrote: >> >> > It is interesting that an electrician is by default the one selecting >> > the best location for a device that is only intended to be used during >> > a fire. And only when the integrated system has failed, and fire has >> > been burning for some time prior to FD arrival. >> >> >> > So expect that smoke is accumulating in the building. Can FF's safely >> > get to activating device, and recognize it once there? >> >> >> > This assume the FD is trained well enough to recognize the situation >> > and understand manually activating system will almost always be the >> > highest suppression (water application) activity. >> >> >> > Are there facilities that also have it in their fire watch plan to >> > activate system when they know detection system is down? >> >> >> > Does having a Journeyman A electrical card make you the best person to >> choose location? >> >> >> > Bruce Verhei >> >> > On May 9, 2016, at 13:18, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > The electrician installed it at the riser and the client asked if this >> was correct. >> >> >> > Todd G Williams, PE >> > Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> > Stonington, CT >> > 860-535-2080 (ofc) >> > 860-608-4559 (cell) >> >> > Sent using CloudMagic >> >> > On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 3:46 PM, rongreenman . < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Typically a valve at the rider. Are you looking for the manual >> > release for a particular riser or a rule as to where it has to be? >> >> > On Monday, May 9, 2016, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> ANy information on location? >> >> >> Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT >> >> 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) Sent using CloudMagic [ >> >> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2] >> >> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 3:13 PM, rongreenman . >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> Typically they're part of the listed trim package. >> >> >> On Monday, May 9, 2016, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > 2007 NFPA 13, 7.3.1.2 The automatic water control valve shall be >> >> > provided with hydraulic, pneumatic, or mechanical manual means for >> >> > operation that is independent of detection devices and of the >> >> > sprinklers. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Craig L. Prahl >> >> > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME >> >> > CH2M >> >> > 200 Verdae Blvd. >> >> > Greenville, SC 29607 >> >> > Direct - 864.920.7540 >> >> > Fax - 864.920.7129 >> >> > CH2MHILL Extension 77540 >> >> > [email protected] <javascript:;> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >> >> > [email protected] <javascript:;>] On >> >> > Behalf Of Todd Williams >> >> > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 2:33 PM >> >> > To: [email protected] <javascript:;> >> >> > Subject: Pre action pull station >> >> > >> >> > I'm looking for guidelines for manual pull stations on pre-action >> >> systems. >> >> > Any idea where they are? >> >> > >> >> > Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, >> >> > CT >> >> > 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) Sent using CloudMagic [ >> >> > >> >> >> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Kt0u0GJLzxwwb7MCDiEPqnzAIXRuh45mBuCy231 >> >> KCQjUADAmsbstorfcS2u3cmf6VWoWnAPNKp1CfWgx57bhXLRwziiio3szpVlEoirXjlRl >> >> aErxlmvOu9DRsancbU-wiLuZyxJzb9c-_ux8HhslMBhQAOxR32puEEiFLLjijqv9fIICy >> >> _QU3maQJSPCR-iLU5CnzUTUvoxXYCJxJwTjbzkG_0V3gb-9cVyCd-xzc-L8H0xmaKv7fb >> >> QWffYiW3G6xSDLbfEVTL3ngXgWNMUiUUNOy2UamgyBurOD7v2Wt9I-zYfsXH7PVWqALSf >> >> RsvE3Rf_lEI6FNrK4RvyxIQd0B8-EQlft0ObsBsbh3PfyC9LvGZtVQnopiXWExly-erED >> >> 5q-PLKR67YG4Se_JKujfY-IlabVTdjbDhH2DKOjWuzUFHnWAYGtth_N5_OKKm0kwtOJsC >> >> CikyFoSnFz1Cgak_Q/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudmagic.com%2Fk%2Fd%2Fmailapp%3Fct >> >> %3Dti%26cv%3D6.0.64%26pv%3D8.2%5D > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> > [email protected] <javascript:;> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> >> ler.org >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> > [email protected] <javascript:;> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> >> ler.org >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> >> scrubbed... >> >> URL: < >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/private.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >> er.org/attachments/20160509/ea1fbf6a/attachment.htm >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> >> ler.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> >> scrubbed... >> >> URL: < >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/private.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >> er.org/attachments/20160509/7e6e19c7/attachment.htm >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> >> ler.org >> >> >> >> > -- >> > Sent from Gmail Mobile >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> > scrubbed... >> > URL: >> > <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/private.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> > er.org/attachments/20160509/6f8d881a/attachment.htm> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> > er.org >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> > er.org >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Charles mailto:[email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > -- Ron Greenman 4110 Olson Dr., NW Gig Harbor, WA 98335 [email protected] 253.576.9700 A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958)
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