Sure you have. They're called a lintel. They are commonly used to transition differing ceiling elevations between areas, or architecturally define spaces.
Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 16, 2018, at 3:31 PM, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I never saw a wall that didn't go all the way down to the floor. > Brad. > Quoting "Mark.Phelps" <[email protected]>: > >> So this minimum space rule applies to sprinklers under soffits and on either >> side of a lintel? I guess I have been of the understanding that this type of >> obstruction was effectively treated like a wall. Is that just not correct? >> >> Mark at Aero >> 602 820-7894 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 2:23 PM, Roland Huggins >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Reality can be cruel. Without an approved variance, the very bad news is >> you have a noncomplying system and all the liability that goes with that. >> After all the crying and gnashing of teeth, sometimes mother has to pick a >> different baby. >> >> Roland >> >> >> >> Roland Huggins, PE - Senior VP Engineering >> >> American Fire Sprinkler Assn. >> >> Dallas, TX >> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wXO1nDy8iYAz2-wkUjZWf5n8JBJh5F1GYGMpa5sAkyrXcYp53UgWPDWk7yMm2GAuKGJs-SDyayG2YArmuwjrZSkbCU9sV2phXwIo5VxEdtibGkfHZUTyhybWoBEh0IsLyjXv912KxMOvIr6Bp4zH5R-GGaDYGo3LHJ9JrUeklb9Z5aYBcghFIysl62kH1aZTGXb8i7TgRoKKIgtxu4xmYvCUnboweqOpNXXl1Xcb9qO-9zgvOKDiRw6GUPr8MUhHd2RnanjOoBFe6hAWvVgxmg/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Rt5VGjvBwdQClxCl63sT3hzlyZTf89OCCrbNtgGCsO3On4Z4UYiPtZeyQZc3G8srveXMRaKYJxK379uyWN1rUNkwAFx_WYGZTWVDbKxKUjAoTDFl7M3G76LK-Mqf2PIiizG8QYGZt0haMrQ7hvgIJMe3kT5Y69SPu313KUYV1XKmyOmjQ8_u00Ujh5Vxeoa5ymesB1FeOOzKhrixOBGdCZqO5Wqi5o9FngecROu4osDq2W0vvxCXC1ZkYlpxPXuMK9VGDaPRZKUmSVCwDPyfSw/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org%2F> >> >> >> Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 1:14 PM, Mark.Phelps >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I the applications we work in (real buildings) it is not possible to do so. >> If I have a sprinkler 10 feet from an I Beam, I can only install the next >> sprinkler at the 8' minimum spacing from it. And if I space the first >> sprinkler at that same 8' from there, I am over spaced from the obstructing >> beam by 12". So...... what's a mother to do? >> >> Mark at Aero >> 602 820-7894 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 12:16 PM, Roland Huggins >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> The one doesn’t negate the other. You have to comply with BOTH. >> >> >> Roland Huggins, PE - Senior VP Engineering >> American Fire Sprinkler Assn. >> Dallas, TX >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/11AaOLmB4GbEARu4YaU_u16EyUnzrX2BM5FR_tPL5oVcrPe8PDEMGFOFNTZw_W613QOFX-p1sOCSOHfzbYNg3lq2AMVYiobBQvuJWjxM0NYjqixKpqTKgio_t--XFyz30IGG9zBFtDRRS3mfB3wjC6Tpz07kT6wHABc6RZ35mypIW581pVqLhPpfXsddxen3NwS3TfOerPq1b_3AasUH9ODWU7WDUdHaicl5lQ0JD29Z9Vq_WHBRsimXtM3gnSFAH-lU-T0kssWfPvJKpNxzrNg/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1hcpfq6Aet0_1h6nFu-avzR_O96qADNdz7alQIL6l8ARN5J1fl2qjc7_NrgAVKZTjFb_wSLnVCc-ii6BeuzcRj_5KiLISDVqFhq4U8P-fLL-5ZmSWaBpC97OW_8dtu0fucdeE1zC6HsmYX9T7p-VGpAqiAbDak32SQYIeclZQk_dLtQEXULnC7rXnByKRKhQ6EDKuoiJGtIcVjDttfCP9JvV8VOW3x7JJ9r8qxlt-QopgghPNDL9xalZgnxzPkD40_Ccz5ySp78CxMthuFOjNgQ/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org%2F> >> >> Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Mark.Phelps >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I'm away from the standards but doesn't NFPA 13 have a paragraph which >> addresses sprinkler spacing on both sides of an obstruction, and only limits >> the spacing to 1/2 the Maximum spacing from the obstruction? We routinely >> space ESFR/Storage sprinklers at 2'-0" from an I Beam on both sides in this >> application. >> >> Mark at Aero >> 602 820-7894 >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 8:17 AM, Roland Huggins >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> You still need to get approval of the AHJ (as an equivalency) since NFPA 13 >> does not allow it. >> >> >> Roland Huggins, PE - Senior VP Engineering >> American Fire Sprinkler Assn. >> Dallas, TX >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1itLE6KI-0YvJ1O45X-H49Sz3FDbGxbyzHLZJkAbQXBXC6TUcVFrJZya7TLnA8Ut2OGf3AF_WbKtBmNFbDz5s0noy3S3-pWB0AzUSHu5TX6l1iqlQ05nFibAMML6rSjHcP5pmA8hp_QEbruyQaw8a1pTisuJwPbnzqdKMm7-YmBzD5DJlCkcneBQU0PxOeYljUgXfjbADGEM2pBaTCy610TUk2w7i3H2Pon6RScLsPAmSurc0ob7fCWUadpxLLUhMON7FFAP3xAa9PtY3ru4JdA/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1gaQcMS-LbBp6Jj0YkGnzaHbPgLw41B9RPOI0VnW-c4TnRlVE5BDuXcfPtCJSlaixPN6oazrltd-gVfYKy5SIxjOXx3fGK-oJSgIZLjt2v_4tLTSl_zo-j4QUMb5xMJ1YCuEk-EDcY9PmTaVDXFfgyVdcNKIiV2tIPQHWo2OwgTWlgKRwc1qUlntQZ8jLjbkzoziLbfls6V43gltorbCDzFWQpfYoZaVpt2S6t3ARnRVM2N2Z4_x6xhXoSTzqRUEcnPQDA1t7pLPq2JKPI2a4Dw/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firesprinkler.org%2F> >> >> Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2018, at 6:45 AM, Brian Harris >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Mark- >> I got a phone call yesterday from a member of one of the committees who >> essentially said the same thing. I’ve re-spotted heads using ESFR in each >> pocket over the storage area and the calc’s are much better, still need to >> find some more cushion somewhere. Thanks again for the response. >> >> Brian Harris, CET >> BVS Systems Inc. >> bvssytemsinc.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1FryT8Ikt3abUxObRrFIcU1_D5fdxxXawMJ3tRKAfDq1J4Bd5c3vb-ShiqIJ8cGUDkiq3_V7q046N6dQxTczruYMhD-lEpL1RhsWsaUFmYiqd3gBAEDa83CTrk--G9JndlyaOCQe3dmpbjAdUj0jN3tPRT5buhY8S44akmM4ZMmIyL6HGTRFVbMYdEP86VQa3NQsutibokLpiUk8O_Vhsc9q_gQqXMPItQerUZAn-QBFHtIKTkSIsrNDN4gPZcJfxuMwyvT327bVKTF0C6_TjZg/http%3A%2F%2Fbvssystemsinc.com%2F> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Mark Sornsin [FAR] >> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 9:41 AM >> To: >> '[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>' >> Subject: RE: ESFR Heads in Concrete Tee's >> >> This may not be an FM job – and FM doesn’t use the term ESFR anymore, but… >> >> I am familiar with an FM job where storage (aka ESFR) sprinklers were used >> in every tee space of concrete tee construction – they were 30” deep tees. >> The rule against not spacing sprinklers closer than 8’ didn’t apply because >> the tees prevented cold soldering. The trick however is that FM has a >> minimum design area for their storage sprinkler calculations (Despite the >> base design being 12 sprinklers at a given pressure). That area is 12 x the >> minimum sprinkler coverage area of 64 sq.ft., which is 768 sq.ft. >> >> I.e. if your design area does not meet 768 sq.ft. FM requires you add >> sprinklers until you reach that threshold. >> >> Again, the main point here is that the minimum spacing is meant for adjacent >> sprinklers, but not those obstructed from each other by construction >> features – at least in FM’s opinion. >> >> >> <image002.jpg><http://secure-web.cisco.com/1naImZp36tbKvd-rE8Lq8Snmcp7AWVf_fow06qFuTm-3st78J7fiMwAVI_bZSfKbV6wmJdiNzVSMbwNLV028ySp6raYqy_Q2K2JVTnd0ZxsgYtz5q506xFQ_bhk1jibQFb6aQvvB88bxuhPNCNC0kFCKn7xOUgfe6J2znCw1bl_h4CmKWZLcDWLm6JX21oZmK9j6WUPti0yxNZ6lNsTXlHz2COB2_gK4L3Lf2eC7AGriuTv7dZAXZivw6En1vvQZ0teCMEC--V7PoruPz9p5DXA/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.summitcous.com%2F> >> >> Mark Sornsin >> Sr. Fire Protection Engineer >> Direct: 701-499-1391 >> Cell: 701-526-8585 >> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Brian Harris >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:29 PM >> To: >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: ESFR Heads in Concrete Tee's >> >> Looking for some confirmation that ESFR heads cannot be used with concrete >> tee construction when the tee is 26” deep. Cut sheet says in this case you’d >> have to put them in each bay but also says heads can’t be closer than 8’, >> tee’s are 6’ on center. >> >> Brian Harris, CET >> BVS Systems Inc. >> Design Manager >> bvssystemsinc.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1FryT8Ikt3abUxObRrFIcU1_D5fdxxXawMJ3tRKAfDq1J4Bd5c3vb-ShiqIJ8cGUDkiq3_V7q046N6dQxTczruYMhD-lEpL1RhsWsaUFmYiqd3gBAEDa83CTrk--G9JndlyaOCQe3dmpbjAdUj0jN3tPRT5buhY8S44akmM4ZMmIyL6HGTRFVbMYdEP86VQa3NQsutibokLpiUk8O_Vhsc9q_gQqXMPItQerUZAn-QBFHtIKTkSIsrNDN4gPZcJfxuMwyvT327bVKTF0C6_TjZg/http%3A%2F%2Fbvssystemsinc.com%2F> >> Phone: 704.896.9989 >> Fax: 704.896.1935 >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. >> For more information please visit >> http://www.symanteccloud.com<http://www.symanteccloud.com/> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1v29pH_Pv12MCVIYZWcII03d9rh18vJkqKynWqIjkkq7DbLzqzgeB60zUGoKUEFjFA1HZI1x-6xE3gK84UNL-nlidVpv9AYfFrwrV05NtincJoVvOg2kHirlwzZcXJrOP0YxPFeutnaGM5DHKh34-bWrtd3x__brgLoGabf4fiK-RgCPasZdwP5S2oS_tQgvM9RjMfl-UtLbnrhKTi49SCmTen1JtPFC1XtBTsG9II7NYHJAoITY4-lV_I_Ah3Q5I1X5AlG43DT7jj5MD2OVFow/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1v29pH_Pv12MCVIYZWcII03d9rh18vJkqKynWqIjkkq7DbLzqzgeB60zUGoKUEFjFA1HZI1x-6xE3gK84UNL-nlidVpv9AYfFrwrV05NtincJoVvOg2kHirlwzZcXJrOP0YxPFeutnaGM5DHKh34-bWrtd3x__brgLoGabf4fiK-RgCPasZdwP5S2oS_tQgvM9RjMfl-UtLbnrhKTi49SCmTen1JtPFC1XtBTsG9II7NYHJAoITY4-lV_I_Ah3Q5I1X5AlG43DT7jj5MD2OVFow/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1grPcJ4mL0wg7Ugy1MtPVege2glp9Q9PEjJIe5-4b2AeP5FtQ8tzBIj94mFeMVW6DL-8L_SaP5seLJu_Bwxfyyw1N913Qxiig7b5Eo9EBKmMMmIAJqb7BYn8Y0-HELryh4T6eosDwv6QL0UtsbJ1DG9dXWM7hqooKy8XuyCM7kAHbeA6BsKsaux5z95wueAXtX6es2U5OB0MAhnkEEJWVmmkdQeQee-rFQMMqKBt8e-i7s6BZNKA50JEQ1QWIsBqYYRB7PSxhA4VBB0Llru7CRw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1grPcJ4mL0wg7Ugy1MtPVege2glp9Q9PEjJIe5-4b2AeP5FtQ8tzBIj94mFeMVW6DL-8L_SaP5seLJu_Bwxfyyw1N913Qxiig7b5Eo9EBKmMMmIAJqb7BYn8Y0-HELryh4T6eosDwv6QL0UtsbJ1DG9dXWM7hqooKy8XuyCM7kAHbeA6BsKsaux5z95wueAXtX6es2U5OB0MAhnkEEJWVmmkdQeQee-rFQMMqKBt8e-i7s6BZNKA50JEQ1QWIsBqYYRB7PSxhA4VBB0Llru7CRw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1MGKAUyOTbzrEG5cBgLbPTrwzVyIY3WtJWQGkCtBliPmG1saz6cmmmqSa4wb4NJfPnthORyCMnZAZWHS8hBhZInXYvCg0KL0Oz7rmIwP0rTf0PiJeNuk5UehxTfctzmyOiYAjqGM1mRRGM6AM9LCFJkTkbpZtydhgbT6qCOPIXISM2gJ6XFeAkMMdfmtsCS-EYg9cRpBrOt2pn5LQNIP8JQ29ZrZj5g4azvPOFuHva8dPX2lre7ZQhTdyW9X63NHj9bqU0_uBj7gMAslI79md2g/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1MGKAUyOTbzrEG5cBgLbPTrwzVyIY3WtJWQGkCtBliPmG1saz6cmmmqSa4wb4NJfPnthORyCMnZAZWHS8hBhZInXYvCg0KL0Oz7rmIwP0rTf0PiJeNuk5UehxTfctzmyOiYAjqGM1mRRGM6AM9LCFJkTkbpZtydhgbT6qCOPIXISM2gJ6XFeAkMMdfmtsCS-EYg9cRpBrOt2pn5LQNIP8JQ29ZrZj5g4azvPOFuHva8dPX2lre7ZQhTdyW9X63NHj9bqU0_uBj7gMAslI79md2g/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://secure-web.cisco.com/1CE3_CIShlql4N95vaysnj8Y78sVtF8fMznA4qi3aocgInORQw0lDaZh9RGrEL3ZuEjpfj5pZcmhbz0jH6iOPsglDJ4I9xWHghNPicpj2BL94B4Y4R0tzqBNlY6hDxlvp4IDfzxIEKFmfwWAiAaKG8PgeMXA_TPqIBDUNEfqIvOtLctBPV-IHeYnWGxQWVTROjk6gSdGnd-2ZiMK35waLEJE8dYEgCtLVGwMHWq9rbfDfMLBBALU4SdN2U3uKHRPH/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
