The water supply is the responsibility of the owner/owner’s agent (Engineer of record). That includes the fire pump sizing. As the engineer of record, it would be up to you to use your engineering judgement to size an appropriate fire pump to supply the system. You can’t wait until the system is layed out to pick a pump. The contractor should not be making that determination unless they want to assume the risk of the EOR.
Look at the requirements for the owners certificate. All that should be provided to the installing contractor before they can begin their work. On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:39 PM Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > You cannot select a fire pump when no water flow test has been done, you > don’t have anything designed and you only have preliminary selection > information. Not happening on my watch. > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | > craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com< > http://www.jacobs.com/> > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > From: John Denhardt <jdenha...@firesprinkler.org> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 12:11 PM > To: Hinson, Ryan <rhin...@burnsmcd.com> > Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Prahl, Craig/GVL < > craig.pr...@jacobs.com> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Submittal Packages > > Agree however, long lead items like fire pump systems might need to be > released early to meet project schedules. > > Thanks, > John > > [https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1] > John August Denhardt, PE > Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services > American Fire Sprinkler Association > m: p: > 301-343-1457 > 214-349-5965 ext 121 > w: > firesprinkler.org< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVqICIpuRg$ > > > [ > http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/facebook_sig.png > ]< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVqs4BZvmQ$> > [ > http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/twitter_sig.png] > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVoWx9VO1A$> > [ > http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/linkedin_sig.png] > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVpRsoTjNQ$> > [ > http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/instagram_sig.png] > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVrJjynI2Q$ > > > Our members are at the heart of everything we do. > Don’t miss another issue! > Sign up to get your exclusive copy of the industry’s leading membership > magazine Sprinkler Age delivered straight to your mailbox, inbox, or both! > Subscribe< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/sprinklerage.com/subscribe/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVqu7AWLHQ$> > now to get the latest information you need to know and never miss another > issue. > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Hinson, Ryan <rhin...@burnsmcd.com<mailto: > rhin...@burnsmcd.com>> wrote: > It's very difficult to efficiently review a project when submittals come > in piecemeal. Inevitably, things get missed and resubmittals of such > partial submittals only complicate matters. Though there are always > exceptions, we require complete (re)submittals with shop drawings complying > with NFPA working plans requirements, quality annotated cutsheets clearly > indicating any selected/elected options, along with the hydraulic > calculations in accordance with NFPA hydraulic calculation procedures. > Incomplete submittals are rejected without review. We also require each > review comment of a submittal to be addressed in a returned written > response letter accompanying the resubmittal. > > We've had success when this is stated up front in bid documents and plan > review generally goes much quicker and with less headache. > > Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET** \ Burns & McDonnell > Senior Fire Protection Engineer > O 952-656-3662 \ M 763-688-4045 \ F 952-229-2923 > rhin...@burnsmcd.com<mailto:rhin...@burnsmcd.com> \ burnsmcd.com< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/burnsmcd.com__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVomaeod3w$ > > > 8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/8201+Norman+Center+Drive,+Suite+500?entry=gmail&source=g> > \ Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 55437 > *Registered in: LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT > **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of > Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:41 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com>>; > John Denhardt <jdenha...@firesprinkler.org<mailto: > jdenha...@firesprinkler.org>> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Submittal Packages > > John, I have that requirement in big bold letters in several places in > the specs but have had a contractor ask to submit components including the > fire pump even before the first pipe has been placed on a drawing. > > I was told this is how they've been doing it for decades. Just wanted to > see what the industry consensus was. > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | > craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | > https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jacobs.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Crhinson%40burnsmcd.com%7C5ca87af7c38244f427b108d86ba08957%7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b%7C0%7C1%7C637377684527248653&sdata=3aGT7kLeKIbnZg4TvDPBxUoz195Nl4J%2BkvETIT7u%2F50%3D&reserved=0 > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.jacobs.com*2F&data=02*7C01*7Crhinson*40burnsmcd.com*7C5ca87af7c38244f427b108d86ba08957*7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b*7C0*7C1*7C637377684527248653&sdata=3aGT7kLeKIbnZg4TvDPBxUoz195Nl4J*2BkvETIT7u*2F50*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVrYdZXNrg$ > > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of > John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:32 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Cc: John Denhardt <jdenha...@firesprinkler.org<mailto: > jdenha...@firesprinkler.org>> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Submittal Packages > > I have seen both. I prefer the entire package. However, I have worked > with General Contractors that demand equipment data sheets with 2 weeks of > contract award. > > Engineers - a suggestion: put the requirement in your specification to > require a complete package if that is what you want. > > Thanks, > John > > John August Denhardt, PE > *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services* > > *American Fire Sprinkler Association* > m: p: 301-343-1457 > 214-349-5965 ext 121 > w: firesprinkler.org< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVqICIpuRg$ > > > < > 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Subscribe < > https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fsprinklerage.com%2Fsubscribe%2F__%3B!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!TVuehqgV7EeDz8BUWmJXdWrh2IZ_6p63iAQoV3IyzVHWs7PRbgP-v_mV-lwYms0fwg%24&data=02%7C01%7Crhinson%40burnsmcd.com%7C5ca87af7c38244f427b108d86ba08957%7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b%7C0%7C0%7C637377684527248653&sdata=Oa31BL3Qv6gUFGLs8G9Vb2ifsQhvt%2BslhOr1aA3EgZo%3D&reserved=0 > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fsprinklerage.com*2Fsubscribe*2F__*3B!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!TVuehqgV7EeDz8BUWmJXdWrh2IZ_6p63iAQoV3IyzVHWs7PRbgP-v_mV-lwYms0fwg*24&data=02*7C01*7Crhinson*40burnsmcd.com*7C5ca87af7c38244f427b108d86ba08957*7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b*7C0*7C0*7C637377684527248653&sdata=Oa31BL3Qv6gUFGLs8G9Vb2ifsQhvt*2BslhOr1aA3EgZo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVqYQjzPKQ$> > > now to get the latest information you need to know and never miss another > issue. > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:08 AM Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum < > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> wrote: > > > Just a general question. > > > > Do you submit your shop drawing package to the EOR as one package or > > do you submit components first and then later the layout drawings and > calcs? > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 > > | craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | > > | https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Fwww__;JSUl!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVoaE-akCA$ > > > > | .jacobs.com<http://jacobs.com>%2F&data=02%7C01%7Crhinson% > 40burnsmcd.com< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/40burnsmcd.com__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!S5UQwTrw04donSOyX3o9ixqH1mdPsCfHe5uqF5z98aKbUxsJIRs0sYMvEVri5VXtlg$ > >%7C5ca87af7c > > | 38244f427b10 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/0+%0D%0A1041+East+Butler+Road+++Greenville,+South+Carolina++29606?entry=gmail&source=g> > 8d86ba08957%7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b%7C0%7C1%7 > > | C637377684527248653&sdata=3aGT7kLeKIbnZg4TvDPBxUoz195Nl4J%2BkvET > > | IT7u%2F50%3D&reserved=0 > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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