That request is now our list of items to be considered or the 2025 edition of 13R.
Thanks, John John August Denhardt, PE *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services* *American Fire Sprinkler Association* m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: firesprinkler.org <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> *Our members are at the heart of everything we do.* *Don’t miss another issue!* Sign up to get your exclusive copy of the industry’s leading membership magazine *Sprinkler* *Age* delivered straight to your mailbox, inbox, or both! Subscribe <https://sprinklerage.com/subscribe/> now to get the latest information you need to know and never miss another issue. On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 1:30 PM Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > I think the rationale is that for a project in the downtown areas, your > flow test is already accounting for those buildings being active. In the > new development, your flow test is not accounting for those since they > don't yet exist. > > However, I am glad the commentary in the 13R handbook (2016) specifically > states it is only to include one building when you have multiple on a > site. It would be great if that could make it in to the body of the > standard. > > > Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET > Engineering Manager > MFP Design > 3356 E Vallejo Ct > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 > NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 > mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com > www.mfpdesign.com > > Send large files to us via: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D&reserved=0 > LinkedIn: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0 > > “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten.” > > Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? Build a material > quote? Check availability ? Searching for an invoice? > *If you do not already have an account with ferguson.com, click > https://www.ferguson.com/account-registration to register.* > **Have a Ferguson account? Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access > to your favorite ferguson.com features. > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/1qtklpp37l9byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003 > or > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003** > > From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On > Behalf Of Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:27 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Bob Knight <b...@firebyknight.com> > Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R > > "However, they may be expected to have domestic demands. That is the plan > reviewer rationale in one particular case." > Does the reviewer apply this same logic when doing a project in a downtown > area with hundreds of buildings all using water at the same time? > I would assume not. So, why would this be any different? The domestic > demand needs to be added only when sharing the water supply from the same > line for each individual building. This is not a collective requirement. > > > > Thank you, > > Bob Knight, CET III > Fire by Knight, LLC > 208-318-3057 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack > via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:53 AM > To: mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com; mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com > Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R > > Correct. However, they may be expected to have domestic demands. That is > the plan reviewer rationale in one particular case. > > > Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET > Engineering Manager > MFP Design > 3356 E Vallejo Ct > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 > NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 > mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com > http://www.mfpdesign.com > > Send large files to us via: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D&reserved=0 > LinkedIn: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0 > > “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten.” > > Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? Build a material quote? > Check availability ? Searching for an invoice? > *If you do not already have an account with ferguson.com, click > https://www.ferguson.com/account-registration to register.* > **Have a Ferguson account? Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access > to your favorite ferguson.com features. > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/1qtklpp37l9byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003 > or > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003** > > From: Mark Phillips <mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:51 AM > To: mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Travis Mack <mailto: > travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> > Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R > > From a practical perspective all of the apartment building would not be > expected to be on fire at once. > > That was how a plan reviewer once explained it to me. > > > Sent from my mobile device > Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. > > Mark Phillips > Branch Manager > Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections > Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections > > 832-101 Purser Drive > Raleigh NC 27603 > Phone: 919-779-4010 > Fax : 919-779-4014 > Cell : 919-268-7587 > Email : mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com > Web : http://www.pyebarkerfire.com > > ________________________________________ > From: Sprinklerforum <mailto: > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Mark > Phillips via Sprinklerforum <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:46:23 AM > To: mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com>; > mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Cc: Mark Phillips <mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> > Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R > > [EXTERNAL] > > Sorry if I was not clear only the demand of the building or buildings that > share the 4 inch supply . > > Sent from my mobile device > Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. > > Mark Phillips > Branch Manager > Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections > Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections > > 832-101 Purser Drive > Raleigh NC 27603 > Phone: 919-779-4010 > Fax : 919-779-4014 > Cell : 919-268-7587 > Email : mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com > Web : http://www.pyebarkerfire.com > > ________________________________ > From: mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:44:10 AM > To: Mark Phillips <mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com>; mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R > > [EXTERNAL] > > So in this case, you would be adding a total demand of 2500 gpm (20 > buildings at 125 gpm each) to your sprinkler calc? And yes, it would be > included at the point of each 4” connection to the 8” main. Seems > excessive, but I have seen it requested that way. I have more commonly done > what Matt states to only include the building of interest in the calc. > > > Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET > Engineering Manager > MFP Design > 3356 E Vallejo Ct > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 > NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 > mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com > http://www.mfpdesign.com<http://www.mfpdesign.com> > > Send large files to us via: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D&reserved=0 > LinkedIn: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0 > > “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten.” > > Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? Build a material quote? > Check availability ? Searching for an invoice? > *If you do not already have an account with ferguson.com, click > https://www.ferguson.com/account-registration to register.* > **Have a Ferguson account? Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access > to your favorite ferguson.com features. > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/1qtklpp37l9byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003 > or > http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true&a=6&p=2591775&t=517003** > > From: Mark Phillips <mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:41 AM > To: mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Travis Mack <mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> > Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R > > Assuming the 8 inch supply loops the complex > Add the domestic demand at the 4” point on the loop for each building > > Sent from my mobile device > Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. > > Mark Phillips > Branch Manager > Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections > Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections > > 832-101 Purser Drive > Raleigh NC 27603 > Phone: 919-779-4010 > Fax : 919-779-4014 > Cell : 919-268-7587 > Email : mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com > Web : http://www.pyebarkerfire.com > > ________________________________________ > From: Sprinklerforum <mailto: > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Travis Mack > via Sprinklerforum <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34:20 AM > To: mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto: > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Cc: mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> > Subject: Domestic Demands 13R > > [EXTERNAL] > > Forumites: > > Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being > calculated to be added to the fire sprinkler system. This is generally not > an issue. If you have a complex of say 20 buildings on site that is > supplied by a common water line serving both domestic and fire, are you > required to include the domestic demand for each building on the site water > main. > > For example, if I have a project with a 8" main going through the complex, > and 4" lead-ins to each building, with a domestic demand of 125 gpm for > each building, how are you doing the domestic demand? With the domestic / > fire split in the building, it is required to include the 125 gpm demand in > addition to the fire sprinkler system demand in the 4" line. Are you > including the other 2375 gpm (19 additional buildings at 125 gpm domestic > allowance), in your calculations back to the city main? > > This seems quite excessive. If it were a 13 system, you would have similar > flows and a 100 gpm hose allowance. There is no requirement in this example > to include the domestic in a 13 system. But, if you are required to include > the additional 2375 gpm, that could be quite taxing on the site supply. > Again, how is everyone handling it. > > We have seen AHJ's take both approaches on this. > > > Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET > Engineering Manager > MFP Design > 3356 E Vallejo Ct > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 > NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 > mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com > http://www.mfpdesign.com > > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack > > “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten.” > > Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? Build a material quote? > Check availability ? Searching for an invoice? > *If you do not already have an account with ferguson.com, click here to > register.* > **Have a Ferguson account? Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access > to your favorite ferguson.com features. Apple iOS devices or Android > devices** > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
