I agree with this statement. I think you are taking it too literal adding all the buildings together into your flow. Where do you stop? Why not flow every building on the water network? Have you considered flipping your logic in the other direction? The civil guy may have had to design the underground to support all 20 buildings flowing 125gpm each for 2500gpm total simultaneously (or whatever his requirements are). But you would only have to design 1 remote area in 1 building to operate at a time. Probably 100gpm or less then add your hose. You are looking to change their required design flow by less than 10%, I bet they have that covered and probably considered into their calculations. You wouldn't be the driver...just along for the ride.
Thanks, Sean VG -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Mark Phillips via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; travis.m...@mfpdesign.com Cc: Mark Phillips <philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Domestic Demands 13R From a practical perspective all of the apartment building would not be expected to be on fire at once. That was how a plan reviewer once explained it to me. Sent from my mobile device Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. Mark Phillips Branch Manager Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections 832-101 Purser Drive Raleigh NC 27603 Phone: 919-779-4010 Fax : 919-779-4014 Cell : 919-268-7587 Email : philli...@pyebarkerfire.com Web : https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyebarkerfire.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=wyj4MoVWDgbfD4l_QTft88TxBW37X1F4j2ehwCyAEi0&e= ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Mark Phillips via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:46:23 AM To: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <travis.m...@mfpdesign.com>; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Mark Phillips <philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R [EXTERNAL] Sorry if I was not clear only the demand of the building or buildings that share the 4 inch supply . Sent from my mobile device Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. Mark Phillips Branch Manager Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections 832-101 Purser Drive Raleigh NC 27603 Phone: 919-779-4010 Fax : 919-779-4014 Cell : 919-268-7587 Email : philli...@pyebarkerfire.com Web : https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyebarkerfire.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=wyj4MoVWDgbfD4l_QTft88TxBW37X1F4j2ehwCyAEi0&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyebarkerfire.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=wyj4MoVWDgbfD4l_QTft88TxBW37X1F4j2ehwCyAEi0&e= > ________________________________ From: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:44:10 AM To: Mark Phillips <philli...@pyebarkerfire.com>; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R [EXTERNAL] So in this case, you would be adding a total demand of 2500 gpm (20 buildings at 125 gpm each) to your sprinkler calc? And yes, it would be included at the point of each 4” connection to the 8” main. Seems excessive, but I have seen it requested that way. I have more commonly done what Matt states to only include the building of interest in the calc. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET Engineering Manager MFP Design 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mfpdesign.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=mYddpiGsci2-eQ8LMtNGESlDY6RduvzIU38q_Iuk30A&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mfpdesign.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=mYddpiGsci2-eQ8LMtNGESlDY6RduvzIU38q_Iuk30A&e= > Send large files to us via: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.hightail.com-252Fu-252FMFPDesign-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DeGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5-252BAZvlHhABSexWY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=7MFYm7oDEaZjf3kpdaYcXAk6mlix4JdBEhaHEHzqtDc&e= LinkedIn: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Ftravismack-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DtT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN-252BZodi-252FhbeCbHNRijI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=Wzq5bburBna6qMkh878jGJMn_luHs27M5hK-P0xG7YI&e= “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? 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Download the Ferguson app for on-the-go access to your favorite ferguson.com features. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com_hq7bgesq7f_1qtklpp37l9byeftyuoy12_external-3Femail-3Dtrue-26a-3D6-26p-3D2591775-26t-3D517003&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=V-z-76QC5UR76nHmitFA6WcChybBacwrKI8fyC_-yS0&e= or https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com_hq7bgesq7f_n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12_external-3Femail-3Dtrue-26a-3D6-26p-3D2591775-26t-3D517003-2A-2A&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=BeBeJ3FYTnU-D3xijgBuKHefehAR0YUNmDYv5BfwcXo&e= From: Mark Phillips <philli...@pyebarkerfire.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:41 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Travis Mack <travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R Assuming the 8 inch supply loops the complex Add the domestic demand at the 4” point on the loop for each building Sent from my mobile device Please excuse spelling, grammar, and auto correction. Mark Phillips Branch Manager Fire Sprinkler Design, Install, Inspections Service, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections 832-101 Purser Drive Raleigh NC 27603 Phone: 919-779-4010 Fax : 919-779-4014 Cell : 919-268-7587 Email : mailto:philli...@pyebarkerfire.com Web : https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyebarkerfire.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=wyj4MoVWDgbfD4l_QTft88TxBW37X1F4j2ehwCyAEi0&e= ________________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34:20 AM To: mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com> Subject: Domestic Demands 13R [EXTERNAL] Forumites: Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being calculated to be added to the fire sprinkler system. This is generally not an issue. If you have a complex of say 20 buildings on site that is supplied by a common water line serving both domestic and fire, are you required to include the domestic demand for each building on the site water main. For example, if I have a project with a 8" main going through the complex, and 4" lead-ins to each building, with a domestic demand of 125 gpm for each building, how are you doing the domestic demand? With the domestic / fire split in the building, it is required to include the 125 gpm demand in addition to the fire sprinkler system demand in the 4" line. Are you including the other 2375 gpm (19 additional buildings at 125 gpm domestic allowance), in your calculations back to the city main? This seems quite excessive. If it were a 13 system, you would have similar flows and a 100 gpm hose allowance. There is no requirement in this example to include the domestic in a 13 system. But, if you are required to include the additional 2375 gpm, that could be quite taxing on the site supply. Again, how is everyone handling it. We have seen AHJ's take both approaches on this. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET Engineering Manager MFP Design 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700 NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471 mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mfpdesign.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=mYddpiGsci2-eQ8LMtNGESlDY6RduvzIU38q_Iuk30A&e= Send large files to us via: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hightail.com_u_MFPDesign&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=jsDe2AT_JwF5pX1MvUz-Ph9ODTDnH95fwTV2ph4TFJ4&e= LinkedIn: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_travismack&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=XSIweKhAHHhyB-d63TCLaTQ55VHpbhIhFOxEPFjbNpg&m=TjhyumA9TbPzedcnwqv0vDplfwDWwzFB_ObrQ0YGgf4&s=ILInD4F4C3fcpLecRYiGZixo3HT2zYklNgkPx54rReM&e= “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” Need/Want a faster way to check material pricing? 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