FWIW, Joe Meyer provides a nice explanation of the potential for error from 
flowing smaller amounts of water versus higher flows (which this discussion is 
about) in the following YouTube vid:  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YpogorxFSc

We recently performed refinery-sized firewater flow testing to the 25% drop 
previously required in order to extrapolate theoretical values or system demand 
(of approximately 6600 gpm) per NFPA 291 from a southwestern US city with city 
assistance.  Our flow test results of 116/87/6949 (which achieved both) were 
used to eliminate over $1,000,000 in scope for an onsite FW storage tank 
upstream of new fire pumps.  Like Craig, I also have my doubts as to whether 
modeled results would have been in the neighborhood and would not use 
theoretical flow unless verified with actual water on the ground for the 
reasons explained in the blog.

It should be noted that a 10% pressure reduction required by some fire codes is 
smaller than the possible 40% error that could be present in a water flow test 
due to the ‘sample size’ of the water supply taken in a flow test as presented, 
where only small amounts of water are actually flowed.

Hope this helps,

Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET**  \  Burns & McDonnell
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
O 612-900-3755 \  M 763-688-4045 \  F 952-229-2923
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>  \  
burnsmcd.com<http://www.burnsmcd.com/>
8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500  \  Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 55437
*Registered in: AK, LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT
**NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout

[cid:[email protected]]

From: Prahl, Craig <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 10:10 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 
<[email protected]>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Hydrant flow tests

Having experienced bogus results from computer modeling on more than one 
occasion, nothing matches the actual flow of the hydrant systems.

Most recently I got a water report from a local municipality who generated the 
info via their water modeling software.  It said I could expect 6700 gpm from 
the system……. via 8” lines at 10 fps!   Nope, don’t think that’s going to be a 
real thing.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | 
www.jacobs.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jacobs.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crhinson%40burnsmcd.com%7Ce93b3c17fb5e4a7addbb08da8b63237e%7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b%7C0%7C0%7C637975555193854225%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eKLvK0U2XoKe32DI9LSrWzu0oHRqmEPIUBXPjZWFnNM%3D&reserved=0>
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS



From: Rick Matsuda <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 9:51 AM
To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Hydrant flow tests

I know that an accurate flow test is critical for the sprinkler system 
design, but I’ve heard several discussions recently about water conservation 
during our drought conditions across the SW states.

With all our technology, is it possible to develop an accurate computer 
modeling program for water departments to use in lieu of flow tests? Even with 
the program, I think there would still be a need for some flow tests to verify 
the program results, but maybe not as many as now.

I’m not taking any pro/con position regarding this issue. I’m just providing 
food for thought for the future as our need for water increases and our 
resources diminish. Adequate water is the key for our industry.

It’s ironic cause we get more wild fires due to the drought, and then we have 
to use more water to fight the fires.
Rick Matsuda


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