On 1 July 2011 09:51, Stefane Fermigier <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Jul 1, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Stefane Fermigier <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>>> ... Apache projects are not funded by external entities,
>>>
>>> This particular one, at least (and probably most of the others) are. Or are 
>>> you implying everyone is working on these projects for free ?
>>
>> No, Stanbol is not funded by IKS.
>
> You obviously have a very different different notion of "being funded" than 
> me.
>
> For me, there is money being spent by some organizations to make the project 
> happen. I call this being funded.
>
> What don't you like about this definition ?

I'm not going to provide Bertrands definition, but I will add my
weight to Bertrands statement.

The ASF does not bring money into the equation of evaluating its
projects and their contributors. Everything done here is voluntary and
everyone is an equal as a result.

Crediting IKS sets a precedent for which, as Bertrand says elsewhere,
you need rules about who is and is not credited.

Should my previous employer be credited? I've done nothing but read a
bunch of emails and, occasionally post a few mentor guidance notes.
But my time was being paid for by them. What about now that I no
longer work for them? What about my new employer - they are paying for
my time right now - are they funding the project?

If you say no then this can damage the community. It creates an us and
them. It creates a hierarchy of importance as I am being treated as a
lesser individual than those funded by IKS.

I am not saying you *cannot* credit employers who support their staff
volunteering here. I am saying that employers do not fund the project.
Nobody funds an ASF project. One way of crediting employers without
having to create a whole raft of red tape is have a page on which
committers can optionally add their employers details (with nofollow
links). This means the moment you vote someone in their employer gets
credit. Another way (which is my preference) is you have a page
listing *users* of the product (with nofollow links). This means
everyone can submit a patch and have their employer listed.

(for clarity I not arguing for my company to be credited, it's not
important and I am here as a volunteer, I am merely providing an
example of how difficult these things can be)

>> IKS is welcome to make donations to the ASF
>
> I'm not talking about donations to the ASF and you perfectly know that.

I think Bertrand was making the point that even companies who donate
directly to the ASF do not *fund* Apache projects.

> Nuxeo is funding part of the effort and out of that funding, expects to see 
> some respect and some love.

The ASF does not single out individual companies. If its not enough to
get a load of free volunteer time on the software they want to use
then they can do public speaking, they can publicly praise their
Apache committers. They can be *seen* to engage with the project both
here and at public events, like ApacheCon.

Recognition comes from action not money. the money stays outside the ASF.

Ross

Ross

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