The BEA OS? I see where you are going ;-)
"they are *not* just another vendor." Got it! There for excluded from ASF livense.
That explains the MS lawsuit. Got it. Thanks.
JSF is "standard". Like C# is. I learned something. :-[
Peace, .V
David Graham wrote:
Sun licenses Java to other companies so that they can port it to their OSes. A violation of that license is what the whole MS lawsuit is about. Like it or not, Sun owns Java; they are *not* just another vendor.
Again, like it or not, JSF is not a framework provided by a vendor but a *standard* Java API. Struts works with other relevant standard APIs (servlet, jsp, jstl, etc) so why not JSF?
David
"1. License Grant. BEA Systems, Inc. ("BEA") grants you a
non-exclusive and non-transferable license for the internal
evaluation, testing , development and production use of the
accompanying software and documentation provided by BEA for WebLogic
JRockit ("JRockit"), including, but not limited to the right to
reproduce and use JRockit internally for the purpose of designing,
developing and testing Java applets and applications, and running Java
applets and applications on JRockit.
"
That's what my license says.
I wonder want the IBM SDK license says.
Look Oracle BEA ship with JRorckit, IBM with its VM... only iPLanet uses Sun VM (which leaks on JSP compiles, and has other issues, it gets replaced in production fairly quickly)
Java is != Sun. Java = {Sun, Bea, IBM, Kaffe.org, ... }
(to the extent that some see as Java == Sun then I say Sun == MS, why not just do Mono then)
If Sun goes the way way of DG or Dec does that mean end of Java? Why not just move ASF out of the way.
ASF should represent the community, and here is a break down of Java Community:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/04/10/java_servlet_engines.html
That is how big part Sun should play, and soon will play. ( I get gigs for IBM, Oracle, BE, Tomcat, etc.... but never for iPlanet, anyone have iPlanet on their resume?)
Let me say it this way, if IBM had a technology, should there be apache.org file with integration to it?
I am sure that JSF will be sold and will be hyped and I will get out of the way of that train. We shall see what happens after that (been there done that with other similar things).
Why kill or limit Struts?
Still no example of another vendor on ASF?
Look, we are not getting anywhere, if it bugs you it bugs you, if it doesn't then don't worry. (Maybe some ASF big shot behind the scene whispers to MC, because a fix is so simple)
I hope you do not speak for all developers as you assume you do.
ASF does not say "do not endorse a vendor, other than Sun"
.V
ps: http://siliconvalley.internet.com/news/article.php/2217231
see this is how you defend open source, but a bit militant I think. Why not just open your eyes.
David Graham wrote:
When you download the JRE/JDK you agree to a Sun license. Java itself is distributed under a Sun license. JSF is a Java standard released through the JCP. You're free to have your own opinion of JSF but Struts *will* support it. The Struts team believes in the use of standard technologies as much as possible, including JSF.
David
ASF does not ask much of people other than don't use it to endorse vendor products. JSF is a Sun license.
On apache.org domain we have integration to a vendor.
I asked for a president, did Jakarta in the past have integration to a vendor on Apache domain?
Is the SF.net implementation licensed to call itself JSF?
(JBoss issues) I do not know legalize.
Craig has that kind of lattitude. I sugested this be better placed on SF.net, and that a wiki page be used to list all vendors that integrate to Struts, with all their stndards info and if they have no stndard.
It stinks to me either way. Maybe I am way off base, but it bugged me and now I can sleep better.
.V
repost of ps: I have personal belief that JSF hype will be followed by search for the guilty, punishment of the innocent and praise for non
participant. My preference is Apache Struts takes no part of Sun JSF.
If
David Graham wrote:
I don't understand the problem you have with Struts integrating with JSF. JSF is the Java *standard* web GUI library.
David
(hope this does not detract from more important issues)
http://cvs.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces
To the extent that this implies Struts _should_ integrate to Sun JSF, I do not like it.
This is quite different than JSTL, which was an Apache License.
Maybe there should be integrations posted in cvs apache to Expresso, ScioWorks (they integrate more to Struts), lots of Vendor IDE and J2EE servers have integration to Struts; maybe their integration jar?s should be posted on non Apache domain, lots of software on sf.net has Apache license.
Craig as original author of Struts, deservers lots of latitude in what he does.
I still don?t like it. If there is a president I am unaware of, I withdraw my objection.
.V
ps: I have personal belief that JSF hype will be followed by search for the guilty, punishment of the innocent and praise for non participant. My preference is Apache Struts takes no part of Sun JSF.
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