On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 10:02, Dan Tran wrote: > James Michell is out of work? Me too. How many good ppl are in the same > situation these days?
Well, I'm not actually out of work yet, but my current contract is almost over and I've been looking for months. As much as I love to evangelize Struts, there just aren't very many jobs out there. > > Sorry for breaking out of the rythm. > > -D > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Micael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:05 AM > Subject: RE: Do Struts increase developer productivity? > > > If you have a good lead person on your team, that makes all the > difference. Someone has to know what they are doing, and then everyone > speeds up. That is especially true if you are using the pluses of the > Xtremists. > > There are lots of good people out there to take these positions. I > understand James Mitchell is looking for work and I would hire him at the > drop of a hat, if I had a position, which I don't. My sense is that there > are a lot of good people that can take Struts out the door, today, anywhere. > > Struts is not the problem. Struts is the solution. There are other > simpler frameworks, like Maverick. You can even build your own > framework. Struts is a pretty good framework (I take "pretty good" to be > very good) that you can also tweak. I personally wish that the Struts > people would just take the bull by the horns and make a big shift in the > framework, using all the things that have been learned since its > inception. I probably am not as smart as they are in this respect. There > is a pretty huge change, however, in 1.1 which is really welcomed. > > At 01:54 AM 3/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > >I think you can do the "kid in a candy store" thing with Struts all too > >easily. As with any project, make sure you set your goals in a design doc, > >just because struts can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. > > > >I had a project hit a wall because my boss kept asking if I could do this > >and that, "yeah, struts can allow me to do that..." "Okay, why don't we add > >that then..." > > > >-Jacob > > > >| -----Original Message----- > >| From: Navjot Singh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:51 PM > >| To: Struts Users List > >| Subject: Re: Do Struts increase developer productivity? > >| > >| here are my 2 cents to this discussion ;-) > >| > >| Initially, the development with struts can be slow. I won't say Struts is > >| complex, it is easy but to create a simple form submission you got to > have > >| quite a number of files in set up. But slowly the things get sunk into > >| your > >| mind and then it's real fast process. > >| However, the speed can be increased with tools like Easystruts and IDEs > >| giving extensive support to Struts. > >| > >| - navjot singh > >| > >| ----- Original Message ----- > >| From: "Igor Shabalov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >| To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >| Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:26 AM > >| Subject: Re: Do Struts increase developer productivity? > >| > >| > >| > > >| > I 100% agree, Struts is good staff for use by the end of the day, but > it > >| > can slow development process. So, can we do something to reduce that > >| > "backslash"? My answer is yes, by introducing tools that helps > >| developers > >| > to "fight" with Struts complexity. Can Struts be better from functional > >| > prospective? Of course yes, however, it can increase complexity even > >| more, > >| > so we see more demand for good tools. > >| > > >| > Once again, I do not to offend anybody. > >| > > >| > Thank you for answer, > >| > Igor. > >| > > >| > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:30:20 -0500, Mark Zeltser > >| > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >| > > >| > > Plus all QA work each of us does by testing struts in different > >| > > environments. > >| > > > >| > > Igor, > >| > > > >| > > In our experience, struts will decrease initial productivity due to > >| the > >| > > learning > >| > > curve. However, this will be time well spent, assuming you will be > >| > > getting > >| > > maintainable application, plus struts is widely used, so there is a > >| good > >| > > chance you > >| > > will be able to find talent if needed. > >| > > > >| > > Re. individual components. Start with well defined directory > structure > >| > > for your > >| > > source, images, etc. and ant based build script. Keep adding > >| > > functionality as you > >| > > feel that there is a need for it. (E.g.: need to authenticate users. > >| > > Before > >| > > implementing your own authentication search the archives, you will > >| find > >| > > that a lot > >| > > of problems were already discussed and solved) > >| > > > >| > > Mark. > >| > > > >| > > David Graham wrote: > >| > > > >| > >> I don't have real numbers but thousands of hours of work from many > >| > >> highly > >| > >> paid software engineers has gone into Struts. Say an average > >| developer > >| > >> gets > >| > >> $50/hour * 2000 hours (probably low) = $100,000. > >| > >> > >| > >> Does your company or your clients want to pay that much to develop > >| their > >| > >> own > >| > >> framework? > >| > >> > >| > >> David > >| > >> > >| > >> >From: Igor Shabalov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >| > >> >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts- > >| [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >| > >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > >> >Subject: Do Struts increase developer productivity? > >| > >> >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:00:00 -0800 > >| > >> > > >| > >> > > >| > >> > Hello, all! > >| > >> > Do anybody have any data how using Struts can increase (or > >| > >> decrease) > >| > >> >developer productivity. I mean, for example, â??using Strutsâ?? can > >| > >> save up > >| > >> >to xx% of development cost. Or save up to xx% of development effort > >| (in > >| > >> >terms of number of lines of code) etc. > >| > >> > And, if Struts really help, what portion of struts > technolody > >| > >> helps more > >| > >> >â?? tag libraries, controller with actions, tiles or anything else. > >| > >> I > >| > >> >understand that depends too much from specific project â?? but I > >| need > >| > >> just > >| > >> >raff estimations (or wild speculations) > >| > >> > > >| > >> > Thank at advance, > >| > >> > Igor. > >| > >> > > >| > >> > > >| > >> >-- > >| > >> >Igor Shabalov > >| > >> >Director of Engineering > >| > >> >Exadel Inc. > >| > >> >http://www.exadel.com > >| > >> > > >| > >> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >| - > >| > >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > >> >For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > >> > > >| > >> > >| > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >| > >> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >| > >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >| > >> > >| > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >| > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > > > >| > > -- > >| > > NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. > >| Sender > >| > > does not > >| > > waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited. > >| > > > >| > > > >| > > > >| > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >| > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > > > >| > > > >| > > >| > > >| > > >| > -- > >| > Igor Shabalov > >| > Director of Engineering > >| > Exadel Inc. > >| > http://www.exadel.com > >| > > >| > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >| > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| > > >| > > >| > >| > >| --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >| To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >| For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > > This electronic mail transmission and any accompanying documents contain > information belonging to the sender which may be confidential and legally > privileged. 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Thank > you > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- James Mitchell Software Developer/Struts Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
