Hi Bob ,Hows it going? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: bob golding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime
> All this might be very true,but will we still using the infernal combustion > engine in 50 years time,? I seriously doubt it. It is noisy > polluting,grossly inefficient and dirty. The only reason we are still using > it is because of the power of oil industry, take that away and we open the > door to much more efficient cleaner technologies. The problem is not the > technology it is the stranglehold the oil industry has over the fuel supply. > There are much better ways to provide motive force to a vehicle than burning > oil in it. Remember if you do the maths to include costs of extraction, > refining and transport and distribution in to the equation. This is as well > as maintaining the status quo with arms sales. Burning oil in a ICE is a > criminal waste of a useful finite resource,as well as propping up some very > iffy regimes in far off lands. Think of that next time you fill up. The > problem is not technological it is political. Always has been always will > be. Just think if you owned an oil company would you be any hurry to shoot > yourself in the foot by promoting an alternative to your endless supply of > gold. It would be a brave government who takes on organisations with so much > clout. If we all made our own fuel legally and the profits started to > drop,then we might have some progress. I somehow think if it got to that > stage it would become illegal to make your own fuel. > > Off soap box back to making some bio-diesel. > > bob golding > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hanns B. Wetzel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:32 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime > > > > No doubt all what professor Pimentel has said is absolutely correct. But > in > > 50 years time when world conventional oil production is down to 17 billion > > barrels per day and demand for oil equivalent in liquid fuels is 70 > billion > > barrels per day, American motor vehicles are not going to be powered > solely > > by ethanol produced from corn. > > > > There will be other far more efficient methods of producing energy for > > transportation. Enzymatic conversion of cellulosic feed stocks to sugars > and > > alcohols will no doubt be one of them. If we already have the technology > to > > clone stud animals today, then surely we will soon have the technology to > > genetically engineer plants that produce their own enzymes not only for > > cellulose-sugar conversion, but also sugar-alcohol conversion. We will > > simply mash up these plants, put them into a fermentation tank, add water, > > raise the temperature and distil the resulting beer. > > > > Deriving liquid fuels from natural gas, coal, shale, tar sands and methane > > hydrates etc. will not only be too expensive, but also create atmospheric, > > land and water pollution which by 2050 will no longer be politically > > acceptable in any part of the world. Therefore a combination of reduced > > demand for liquid fuels and cheap bio fuels produced from dedicated energy > > crops is the most likely long term scenario. > > > > In the meantime however, what if it takes 70% more energy to produce > ethanol > > from corn that the ethanol produces? It is good for the atmosphere, it is > > good for the farmers, it makes cars run better and it boosts technology > > development. > > > > So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax > dollar > > on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or > make > > OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies > run > > down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing > resources. > > > > Sometimes one wonders what these so called scientists do for common sense. > > They are so busy investigating, analysing, and tabulating, that they loose > > sight of the practical world that we live in. > > > > Hanns > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2001 12:22 AM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime > > > > > > http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01/corn-basedethanol.hrs.html > > > > [i]Ethanol fuel from corn faulted as 'unsustainable subsidized food > > burning' in analysis by Cornell scientist > > FOR RELEASE: Aug. 6, 2001 > > Contact: Roger Segelken > > Office: 607-255-9736 > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -------------------------snip---------------------- > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
