No, it is probably not all true. Yes, there probably will be major changes to transportation and stationary power plants by 2050.
Still there will always be a need for liquid fuels. Not only is the oil industry a major economic force, but so are the transport industries, so internal combustion engines will probably still be around for a long time, and the oil companies will most likely have cornered the market for liquid fuels. So nothing much will have changed, except then there will be millions of acres of energy crops instead of holes in the ground leading to atmospheric pollution from fertilisers:-) By the way the oil consumption demand figures were wrong they are annual, not daily. Divide by 345 to get the correct daily figures. Hanns -----Original Message----- From: bob golding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 10 August 2001 3:34 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime All this might be very true,but will we still using the infernal combustion engine in 50 years time,? I seriously doubt it. It is noisy polluting,grossly inefficient and dirty. The only reason we are still using it is because of the power of oil industry, take that away and we open the door to much more efficient cleaner technologies. The problem is not the technology it is the stranglehold the oil industry has over the fuel supply. There are much better ways to provide motive force to a vehicle than burning oil in it. Remember if you do the maths to include costs of extraction, refining and transport and distribution in to the equation. This is as well as maintaining the status quo with arms sales. Burning oil in a ICE is a criminal waste of a useful finite resource,as well as propping up some very iffy regimes in far off lands. Think of that next time you fill up. The problem is not technological it is political. Always has been always will be. Just think if you owned an oil company would you be any hurry to shoot yourself in the foot by promoting an alternative to your endless supply of gold. It would be a brave government who takes on organisations with so much clout. If we all made our own fuel legally and the profits started to drop,then we might have some progress. I somehow think if it got to that stage it would become illegal to make your own fuel. Off soap box back to making some bio-diesel. bob golding ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hanns B. Wetzel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime > No doubt all what professor Pimentel has said is absolutely correct. But in > 50 years time when world conventional oil production is down to 17 billion > barrels per day and demand for oil equivalent in liquid fuels is 70 billion > barrels per day, American motor vehicles are not going to be powered solely > by ethanol produced from corn. > > There will be other far more efficient methods of producing energy for > transportation. Enzymatic conversion of cellulosic feed stocks to sugars and > alcohols will no doubt be one of them. If we already have the technology to > clone stud animals today, then surely we will soon have the technology to > genetically engineer plants that produce their own enzymes not only for > cellulose-sugar conversion, but also sugar-alcohol conversion. We will > simply mash up these plants, put them into a fermentation tank, add water, > raise the temperature and distil the resulting beer. > > Deriving liquid fuels from natural gas, coal, shale, tar sands and methane > hydrates etc. will not only be too expensive, but also create atmospheric, > land and water pollution which by 2050 will no longer be politically > acceptable in any part of the world. Therefore a combination of reduced > demand for liquid fuels and cheap bio fuels produced from dedicated energy > crops is the most likely long term scenario. > > In the meantime however, what if it takes 70% more energy to produce ethanol > from corn that the ethanol produces? It is good for the atmosphere, it is > good for the farmers, it makes cars run better and it boosts technology > development. > > So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar > on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make > OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run > down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. > > Sometimes one wonders what these so called scientists do for common sense. > They are so busy investigating, analysing, and tabulating, that they loose > sight of the practical world that we live in. > > Hanns > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2001 12:22 AM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime > > > http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01/corn-basedethanol.hrs.html > > [i]Ethanol fuel from corn faulted as 'unsustainable subsidized food > burning' in analysis by Cornell scientist > FOR RELEASE: Aug. 6, 2001 > Contact: Roger Segelken > Office: 607-255-9736 > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -------------------------snip---------------------- > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! 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